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Post by Matthew on Apr 11, 2007 22:49:33 GMT -5
This would be good: it would reduce the betrayal-potential. I still think that Juliet is backed into a corner, somehow, and will wind up defecting to the Lostaways. Because I'm an idiot who is all sorts of optimistic and hopeful. Jack needs everyone to believe that he's been taken in by Juliette, to make it all the more convincing to Juliette. Kate is suspicious though. She just can't make sense out of Jack's actions - they don't sound like Jack. She's suspicious. Sayid and Sawyer are buying it for now. I am hoping Juliette is a temporary character. If not, then I suppose they could have a "she turns good" sort of story in mind for her. I found her righteous little speech to Sayid and Sawyer to be WAAAY off the mark, and it convinced me more than ever that she wasn't for real. She was emotionally manipulating them, using a "turning the tables" technique. What she was saying really made no sense at all - they weren't playing "moral police,' they were just playing "police," trying to protect themselves and their people. Instead of addressing what they were REALLY asking about - who are you, what are you doing here, why should we trust you, etc - she accused them of something they weren't doing, then she told them how unqualified they were to do it. It was so deliberate and manipulative . . . it reeked. Yep. But it served the purpose she was shooting for: defusing them both completely, so she could continue on her plan. I'm pretty certain she was responding to different things than the questions they were asking, to gain the upper hand on the situation. She's learned well from Benry, on the "warp the subject" method of keeping those around you off-guard.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 22:50:57 GMT -5
Sawyer and Sayid agreeing and all intimate. Freaky. "Designed to keep her alive in the late stages of her pregnancy" this doesn't bode well for Sun. Yeah, I thought of that too. Then again, now that we know Claire might very well not have had the same pregnancy death issues, and instead they caused this sickness . . . And since Sun's baby might be another magical mystical Island baby, well . . . Yeah, that was a particularly bad choice of words. Nope. Not one bit.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 22:51:57 GMT -5
I love Lost, I really do. But it's extremely frustrating to not be able to tell who is lying and who isn't. Oy!!! Sing it, sister! Big ol' ass. Manipulative ass.
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Post by Sara on Apr 11, 2007 22:52:33 GMT -5
This would be good: it would reduce the betrayal-potential. I still think that Juliet is backed into a corner, somehow, and will wind up defecting to the Lostaways. Because I'm an idiot who is all sorts of optimistic and hopeful. Jack needs everyone to believe that he's been taken in by Juliette, to make it all the more convincing to Juliette. Kate is suspicious though. She just can't make sense out of Jack's actions - they don't sound like Jack. She's suspicious. Sayid and Sawyer are buying it for now. I am hoping Juliette is a temporary character. If not, then I suppose they could have a "she turns good" sort of story in mind for her. I found her righteous little speech to Sayid and Sawyer to be WAAAY off the mark, and it convinced me more than ever that she wasn't for real. She was emotionally manipulating them, using a "turning the tables" technique. What she was saying really made no sense at all - they weren't playing "moral police,' they were just playing "police," trying to protect themselves and their people. Instead of addressing what they were REALLY asking about - who are you, what are you doing here, why should we trust you, etc - she accused them of something they weren't doing, then she told them how unqualified they were to do it. It was so deliberate and manipulative . . . it reeked. See, I loved that entire scene. I mean, there's no question she played them by turning the tables on them, deflecting their questions by pushing all of their shame/guilt buttons (athough her look afterward belied the confidence she exhibited during her recitation of their sins with its interesting mix of fear and relief—almost like she couldn't believe she made it through what had just transpired there). But the thing is, both of these guys have dealt with emotional manipulators and liars all their lives—Sayid, in particular, has probably had that exact technique used against him more than once in the past. So I don't think they'd have bought her "who are you to judge?" attack if there wasn't an element of truth in it. And while I agree that they were absolutely all about protecting themselves and their friends when they decided to follow her, I also honestly thought they were being a bit self-righteous in demanding she confess all of her sins to them right at that moment; she wasn't wrong in pointing out that neither of them have come completely clean with their fellow castaways about their own pasts, and they've been there together almost three months now. So, yeah—I actually liked that part a lot. But, obviously, that's just me.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 22:54:31 GMT -5
So what is that on the tree? reminds me of the Turacean's tattoo from Heavy Metal. Don't try trumping them with the moral high ground stuff... Then again, well, that part kinda worked... she has them saying "moo". Note to Self: Don't F*** with the fertility doctor. AND the scene from the begining of the season!!!!!! Plane crashing to "Downtown"!!!!! AWESOME!! Something he needs to show her. What? LOVE the "We're approaching the house, don't shoot us..." Acadia Park? Where is that? Ah. Miami. And Fachel is alive, has hair, and a kid. So he proves to her that his word is good. huh. At least on things he chooses to prove it on.. Brought her back to the fold. "Get back here as soon as you can" from Miami? Teleportation!!!! There are stepping disks between thither and hither!!! Don't try Charlie on concatenative logic, his little driveshaft will spin apart.... Jack's telling her "if your magic doesn't work, the villagers will tear you to bits.. Excellent choice of words!Heeeeeeee!
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 22:56:47 GMT -5
And she acts like a Soap Opera Amnesiac.. "What happened?" "Here's the peace-offering that you get for not killing Claire." Is Jack talking to the producers from the audience? "good people. Gonna need some answers" "You wanna get off this island more than anything else in the world. Makes you one of us" So she's included in their tribe. SHIT. It's a freakin' ploy. DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT. razzle-frazzing ratzen-katzen.. IMPLANT? JEEBUS. She may still want to get off this island more than anything else in the world, but she's not particular who she works with on it. Dangit. I was SO hoping that she wasn't a plant. Not only is she a plant, but Jack KNOWS it. He is playing her. I'm sure of it. He's got something going on in that head. And I totally completely hope you are right that this is what it is!
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 22:59:43 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why Juliet ever left her sister to take this weirdo job with a company no one ever heard of and go far away...
And why did the Others need Juliet to do whatever they've got her doing now. They have Locke, they had Sayid and Jack and Kate; why didn't they just keep them?
Unless the Others want all the Lostaways dead?
I have never trusted Juliet.
GAIL I think the Others feel that the Lostaways are "theirs" to play with anytime they want to. It doesn't matter if they actually have them in custody or not. And, yeah. Why on earth would anyone take that job? Not to mention, drink the orange juice.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 23:01:35 GMT -5
Jack needs everyone to believe that he's been taken in by Juliette, to make it all the more convincing to Juliette. Kate is suspicious though. She just can't make sense out of Jack's actions - they don't sound like Jack. She's suspicious. Sayid and Sawyer are buying it for now. I am hoping Juliette is a temporary character. If not, then I suppose they could have a "she turns good" sort of story in mind for her. I found her righteous little speech to Sayid and Sawyer to be WAAAY off the mark, and it convinced me more than ever that she wasn't for real. She was emotionally manipulating them, using a "turning the tables" technique. What she was saying really made no sense at all - they weren't playing "moral police,' they were just playing "police," trying to protect themselves and their people. Instead of addressing what they were REALLY asking about - who are you, what are you doing here, why should we trust you, etc - she accused them of something they weren't doing, then she told them how unqualified they were to do it. It was so deliberate and manipulative . . . it reeked. As much as I love her character I do agree with the whole scene with Sawyer and Sayid. I thought it was horrible, and why didnt they say , If you know so much about us , then you know we dont fuck around, and we will kill you if you dont start talking now!!!!!!! at least they did answer how the others were able to get all the info on the losties. Loved seeing how they were able to get the info on the Lostaways.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 23:03:02 GMT -5
Okay. I'm just gonna say it so it's out there and on the record, so to speak, but I know there's little point in trying to convince the rest of y'all: I still think Juliet might turn out okay. I know, I know. Call me naive, call me a trusting idiot, whatever. But there are lots of ways this storyline could go: she could have agreed to go along with Ben's plan in order to get away from him and the Others, she could be playing along with the intent to double-cross him later on... there's lots of plausible scenarios that could easily end with her on the Losties' side. I also realize it's not very likely, that if she were planning on betraying Ben she'd have told Jack about their plan, that she could have a grudge against the Losties over what happened to Goodwin, etc. I know all the logical reasons I should just give up and face the reality: Juliet's a liar, is playing our gang like a virtuoso, and will eventually betray all of them—most likely breaking Jack's heart in the process. But I'm gonna continue believing she'll end up a good guy anyway. I'm putting her in a "not a good or bad guy/not really an Other / not really a Lostaway" category. I think she's got her own goals and plans.
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Post by Karen on Apr 11, 2007 23:04:20 GMT -5
Jack needs everyone to believe that he's been taken in by Juliette, to make it all the more convincing to Juliette. Kate is suspicious though. She just can't make sense out of Jack's actions - they don't sound like Jack. She's suspicious. Sayid and Sawyer are buying it for now. I am hoping Juliette is a temporary character. If not, then I suppose they could have a "she turns good" sort of story in mind for her. I found her righteous little speech to Sayid and Sawyer to be WAAAY off the mark, and it convinced me more than ever that she wasn't for real. She was emotionally manipulating them, using a "turning the tables" technique. What she was saying really made no sense at all - they weren't playing "moral police,' they were just playing "police," trying to protect themselves and their people. Instead of addressing what they were REALLY asking about - who are you, what are you doing here, why should we trust you, etc - she accused them of something they weren't doing, then she told them how unqualified they were to do it. It was so deliberate and manipulative . . . it reeked. See, I loved that entire scene. I mean, there's no question she played them by turning the tables on them, deflecting their questions by pushing all of their shame/guilt buttons (athough her look afterward belied the confidence she exhibited during her recitation of their sins with its interesting mix of fear and relief—almost like she couldn't believe she made it through what had just transpired there). But the thing is, both of these guys have dealt with emotional manipulators and liars all their lives—Sayid, in particular, has probably had that exact technique used against him more than once in the past. So I don't think they'd have bought her "who are you to judge?" attack if there wasn't an element of truth in it. And while I agree that they were absolutely all about protecting themselves and their friends when they decided to follow her, I also honestly thought they were being a bit self-righteous in demanding she confess all of her sins to them right at that moment; she wasn't wrong in pointing out that neither of them have come completely clean with their fellow castaways about their own pasts, and they've been there together almost three months now. So, yeah—I actually liked that part a lot. But, obviously, that's just me. It was a great scene, and very well acted. It was manipulative, but it had a grain of truth in it, so it had the desired effect on Sayid and Sawyer, and she was able to carry on with her con. Poor Claire. She's been put through a lot.
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Post by Sara on Apr 11, 2007 23:04:59 GMT -5
The thing about Juliet's character is that she is so likeable and sincere in her flashbacks. She is truly concerned about her sister. She is also very beautiful. I think she has a true scientist's curiosity and it was the reason she was intrigued and took the weirdo job (hi Gail!) and sucked down the Kool-Aid juice with the tranquilizer in it so quickly. I also think that Ben is manipulating her and has been from the beginning, especially where it concerns 'helping' the women to carry to term and blaming the island for it not happening. I think that they are experimenting on the babies in the womb and had been using Juliet to help bring them to term, but it hasn't been working. I think Juliet is playing both ends against the middle, and is going to suffer for it, unless she turns coat and joins with the Losties. Right now, I don't see any reason why she would do that. She doesn't give off any vibes (IMO) of being attracted to Jack, and he doesn't seem attracted to her either. I could be missing something there, tho. She knows too much about what is going on on the island, and there is no way The Others would let her stay with our Losties if they thought she was going to turn on them. Are the cameras on the island still working? If they are, then they are watching her every move. If she is thinking of turning to the good side, she'll have to be very careful about how she does it. A bunch of excellent points. We still have a large disconnect between the Juliet who arrived on the island, who wore her heart on her sleeve and worked so hard to help her sister, and the person we see now, coolly lying her ass off and playing people like they're so many pawns. The thing about the cameras is also definitely good to keep in mind; she and/or Jack could be doing a very delicate dance indeed in order to fool whoever might be watching them.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 11, 2007 23:06:06 GMT -5
The thing about Juliet's character is that she is so likeable and sincere in her flashbacks. She is truly concerned about her sister. She is also very beautiful. I think she has a true scientist's curiosity and it was the reason she was intrigued and took the weirdo job (hi Gail!) and sucked down the Kool-Aid juice with the tranquilizer in it so quickly. I also think that Ben is manipulating her and has been from the beginning, especially where it concerns 'helping' the women to carry to term and blaming the island for it not happening. **nods nods nods** I wonder if Benry is threatening her sister again to get her to do this "spy on the losties" thing. Oooooooh! Excellent suggestion! When that patient died, and they sent her out of the operating room? I got a . . . vibe. Like they were hiding something from her. Yup.
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Post by Karen on Apr 11, 2007 23:15:27 GMT -5
Ethan's hidden supply of goodies. Sayid and Sawyer step in. Juliette takes the usual Other tactic of aggressively coming back at them with all they've done (blood on their hands) instead of just, you know, actually talking to them. The things she says are true, but not the whole story. And not really relevant. I mean, saying they are the "moral compass" of the folks at camp? Um, no. And what does that have to do with anything anyway? You told Jack and Kate what was up, you couldn't say "we need to get these drugs back, I'll tell you everything as we head through the jungle". Interesting to see how tense she was as she walked away. She wasn't sure that would work. And she got to Sawyer, but I'm not so sure Sayid wasn't just gathering data about her like she was on him. Ooooh, book club! Petula! Plane go boom! It just dawned on me that her snuggle bunny guy on the island was the guy who was planted among the tailies and thus helped kidnap and kill them. Yep. I've been trying to remember who killed him. - Thanks to Sara, - it was Ana Lucia. I wonder if they sent Michael back to kill her. Yep. And as Sara told me, it wasn't such a leap of faith to let her administer the injection if Jack believed Juliet was trying to win their trust.
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Post by Rob on Apr 12, 2007 0:31:49 GMT -5
Benry takes Juliette to see Mikhail. Ah! That's how they do the "all knowing" act. Just watch the news, get the flight manifest, get background info on all of them. Not magical, just technology and amazingly good research skills.Not to rain on the logic parade or anything, but what research bore the info regarding Sawyer killing that guy the day before the plane crashed? Did they Google "vengeful con men who got duped?"
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 12, 2007 6:41:57 GMT -5
Jack needs everyone to believe that he's been taken in by Juliette, to make it all the more convincing to Juliette. Kate is suspicious though. She just can't make sense out of Jack's actions - they don't sound like Jack. She's suspicious. Sayid and Sawyer are buying it for now. I am hoping Juliette is a temporary character. If not, then I suppose they could have a "she turns good" sort of story in mind for her. I found her righteous little speech to Sayid and Sawyer to be WAAAY off the mark, and it convinced me more than ever that she wasn't for real. She was emotionally manipulating them, using a "turning the tables" technique. What she was saying really made no sense at all - they weren't playing "moral police,' they were just playing "police," trying to protect themselves and their people. Instead of addressing what they were REALLY asking about - who are you, what are you doing here, why should we trust you, etc - she accused them of something they weren't doing, then she told them how unqualified they were to do it. It was so deliberate and manipulative . . . it reeked. Yep. But it served the purpose she was shooting for: defusing them both completely, so she could continue on her plan. I'm pretty certain she was responding to different things than the questions they were asking, to gain the upper hand on the situation. She's learned well from Benry, on the "warp the subject" method of keeping those around you off-guard. Yes - agree completely. This is what I meant by saying that she was manipulating them. What she did was very effective. By saying "it reeked," I meant it reeked of manipulation, it was not . . . sincere, off-the-cuff, up-front response. It's part of what told me she was almost certainly a mole.
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