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Post by Lola m on May 13, 2007 12:11:55 GMT -5
Oooooh! See, I have been thinking he was one of the old timey Dharma guys. Like maybe even Dr Hanso himself or something . . . |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 13, 2007 12:23:07 GMT -5
Oh, I was just thinking of how you were looking for rabbit examples and putting that together with the theme of pregnancy they have going. So, then I thought, aha! Like all those old movies and shows when the doctor would say "the rabbit died". (Back when they had to kill the test rabbit to see the changes that would let you know if the woman was prenant or not. And then, they still used rabbits for a while when they could discover the changes without killing the rabbit.) OK, it's a stretch. But hey, rabbits!  I don't even know when they stopped using rabbits, so I can't even take the idea further to think if the Dharma folks might have had rabbits there for that purpose. I assume for all sorts of lab experiments and so on, but who knows. Maybe they just liked bunnies.  Thanks for the clarification. I've never heard of that before. |
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Post by leftylady on May 13, 2007 15:09:38 GMT -5
I found a site that has some screen caps of Jacob. Here is the link. Go crazy. Oh there are a bunch of comments on there as well. Some are nuts but a few intrigued me. like this one. pat_boyle said... I think something important to consider is the relationship of the names. There is a lot of symbolism in the names of the characters that references other things. Things I don't see as coincidental. John Locke is the name of a philosopher who believed in Tabula Rasa, or clean slate, meaning people are born without innate ideas. Jean ROUSSEAU was another philosopher who believed in such things. John Locke also notably believed in the right to rebellion among citizens. Bibically, Benjamin is the son of Jacob. The biblical Ben was born on the side of the road, and his mother Rached died in childbirth (coincidence?!?! no). He was also the leader of a tribe that was split from The House of Joseph. Jacob, now, is considered a man who "dwelled in tents" (significant of his aversion to technology?). He was a second born twin, and a deceiver (just things to consider for later). Jacob, later in life, saw a vision known as Jacob's Ladder, which signified the exiles that the Jewish people would suffer befure the coming of the Messiah (The suffering of the hostiles in regards to the Dharma Initiative?). Now just to blow things COMPLETELY out of proportion, consider this. Jack is a nickname for Jacob. Jack's last name is Shepard, and Jesus, the Messiah, is known as a sheperd. Is Jack a messianic character, suffering with some struggle? We know he is struggling now and that in some upcoming episode he's gonna throw down (Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.) losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.htmlThanks, Jeff. Interesting parallels. More about the Biblical Jacob: from a post by "Willie Lumpkin" on the zap2it.com blog for the episode: "Another thought... in the bible (old testament) Jacob had many sons who would eventually each start a tribe. The sons, one of whom was named Benjamin, were jealous of Jacob's favorite son who had special abilities (had special dreams) and in their jealousy threw the favorite son into a pit. Locke, in Ben's eyes, is the islands favorite -- he can heal his legs and can hear jacob when ben cannot. ben, jealous, throws him in a pit. joseph got out and so will locke." Locke may not be "Joseph" but there is hope yet for him. leftylady |
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Post by Pixi on May 14, 2007 8:27:01 GMT -5
Also, Jacob reminds me of Management in Carnivale. Oh he does, doesn't he? Excellent comparison. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 14, 2007 9:58:50 GMT -5
Having finally gotten around to watching... When Ben's father got to the highway, there was a road sign behind him which said "Portland 32" (that's as much as I could make out on the tape). So we wondered, Portland where? There's one in Oregon and one in Maine, at least, and that's when Paul remembered that Wilhelm Reich's ranch and lab, Orgonon, were in Maine. From what I could remember from Peter Reich's book about his father, A Book of Dreams, there are a few small similarities between Orgonon and Dharma. A little background on Reich, from the encyclopedia on Gaffaweb: Reich, Wilhelm
(1897 - 3 November 1957) A controversial psychoanalyst who took Freudian orthodoxy to an extreme and theorized that all personality disorders arose from sexual repression. Beginning his career at Freud's Psychoanalytic Polyclinic in his native Austria, Reich moved to Germany, but upon Hitler's rise to power in 1933 he was forced to leave the country. In 1942 he founded The Orgone Institute and acquired an estate in Maine which was dubbed Orgonon. Reich came to believe that his theoretical "orgone energy" was not merely the result of sexual repression, but was the fundamental energy of the universe -- and that harnessing this energy through his "orgone accumulators" could alter the fundamental properties of matter, or even change the world's climate, creating rain on command.
In 1954, the American Food and Drug Administration issued an injunction against Reich for transporting his orgone accumulators across state lines. Refusing to appear at an FDA hearing -- he deemed orgone energy to be a matter of the utmost national security, and refused to divuge its alleged secrets -- Reich was charged with criminal contempt and was sentenced to two years imprisonment. Reich died in a Federal Penitentiary at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania on 3 November 1957. Although Reich was demonstrably insane, it remains tragic that the FDA was able to order his books withdrawn from public circulation and summarily destroyed.
Reich's son Peter, nine years old at the time of his father's imprisonment, wrote as an adult the autobiographical memoir A Book Of Dreams, which recounts his memories of his father. This book inspired the song Cloudbusting; in the video for the song, Wilhelm Reich -- or a fictionalized avatar of Reich -- is portayed by actor Donald Sutherland. A link to the Wilhelm Reich Museum in Rangely, Maine. I Mapquested, and Rangely is about 130 miles from Portland. For whatever that's worth. So there it is. It's probably nothing, but *shrugs*. Now, about Ben and Jacob. I have a theory. Jacob isn't a real man, he's Ben's projection, face of the island, polar bear or what have you. Jacob is Ben. Ben is Jacob. They have a ... connection. Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes... Ben came to the island when he was about Walt's age (from the look of it). Like Walt, Ben was resentful, disliked his dad, and didn't want to be there. I think the island woke some power Ben had, and that power manifested first as Ben's mother, and then as "Jacob", Ben's imaginary friend. Nobody but Ben can see or hear Jacob. When Ben goes back to the Dharma village after he's killed his dad, Ben is the only one who talks to Jacob. The other men who are removing the bodies didn't seem to notice Jacob at all. ETA: That wasn't Jacob at the village, that was Richard. My mistake.  Thanks for catching that, Liz. It's no wonder Ben reacted so badly when Locke heard Jacob - Jacob is Ben's, and Ben doesn't share well, at least not when it comes to the power of the island. About Locke: I don't think Locke is going to die - he's the island's new bestest minion. He'll get better. |
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Post by Sara on May 14, 2007 11:07:07 GMT -5
Interesting tidbit.: Michael Emerson's real-life wife Carrie Preston played Ben's mother Emily in this episode.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 14, 2007 12:54:06 GMT -5
Having finally gotten around to watching... When Ben's father got to the highway, there was a road sign behind him which said "Portland 32" (that's as much as I could make out on the tape). So we wondered, Portland where? There's one in Oregon and one in Maine, at least, and that's when Paul remembered that Wilhelm Reich's ranch and lab, Orgonon, were in Maine. From what I could remember from Peter Reich's book about his father, A Book of Dreams, there are a few small similarities between Orgonon and Dharma. A little background on Reich, from the encyclopedia on Gaffaweb: Reich, Wilhelm
(1897 - 3 November 1957) A controversial psychoanalyst who took Freudian orthodoxy to an extreme and theorized that all personality disorders arose from sexual repression. Beginning his career at Freud's Psychoanalytic Polyclinic in his native Austria, Reich moved to Germany, but upon Hitler's rise to power in 1933 he was forced to leave the country. In 1942 he founded The Orgone Institute and acquired an estate in Maine which was dubbed Orgonon. Reich came to believe that his theoretical "orgone energy" was not merely the result of sexual repression, but was the fundamental energy of the universe -- and that harnessing this energy through his "orgone accumulators" could alter the fundamental properties of matter, or even change the world's climate, creating rain on command.
In 1954, the American Food and Drug Administration issued an injunction against Reich for transporting his orgone accumulators across state lines. Refusing to appear at an FDA hearing -- he deemed orgone energy to be a matter of the utmost national security, and refused to divuge its alleged secrets -- Reich was charged with criminal contempt and was sentenced to two years imprisonment. Reich died in a Federal Penitentiary at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania on 3 November 1957. Although Reich was demonstrably insane, it remains tragic that the FDA was able to order his books withdrawn from public circulation and summarily destroyed.
Reich's son Peter, nine years old at the time of his father's imprisonment, wrote as an adult the autobiographical memoir A Book Of Dreams, which recounts his memories of his father. This book inspired the song Cloudbusting; in the video for the song, Wilhelm Reich -- or a fictionalized avatar of Reich -- is portayed by actor Donald Sutherland. A link to the Wilhelm Reich Museum in Rangely, Maine. I Mapquested, and Rangely is about 130 miles from Portland. For whatever that's worth. So there it is. It's probably nothing, but *shrugs*. Now, about Ben and Jacob. I have a theory. Jacob isn't a real man, he's Ben's projection, face of the island, polar bear or what have you. Jacob is Ben. Ben is Jacob. They have a ... connection. Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes... Ben came to the island when he was about Walt's age (from the look of it). Like Walt, Ben was resentful, disliked his dad, and didn't want to be there. I think the island woke some power Ben had, and that power manifested first as Ben's mother, and then as "Jacob", Ben's imaginary friend. Nobody but Ben can see or hear Jacob. When Ben goes back to the Dharma village after he's killed his dad, Ben is the only one who talks to Jacob. The other men who are removing the bodies didn't seem to notice Jacob at all.It's no wonder Ben reacted so badly when Locke heard Jacob - Jacob is Ben's, and Ben doesn't share well, at least not when it comes to the power of the island. About Locke: I don't think Locke is going to die - he's the island's new bestest minion. He'll get better. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 14, 2007 12:57:50 GMT -5
Having finally gotten around to watching... When Ben's father got to the highway, there was a road sign behind him which said "Portland 32" (that's as much as I could make out on the tape). So we wondered, Portland where? There's one in Oregon and one in Maine, at least, and that's when Paul remembered that Wilhelm Reich's ranch and lab, Orgonon, were in Maine. From what I could remember from Peter Reich's book about his father, A Book of Dreams, there are a few small similarities between Orgonon and Dharma. A little background on Reich, from the encyclopedia on Gaffaweb: Reich, Wilhelm
(1897 - 3 November 1957) A controversial psychoanalyst who took Freudian orthodoxy to an extreme and theorized that all personality disorders arose from sexual repression. Beginning his career at Freud's Psychoanalytic Polyclinic in his native Austria, Reich moved to Germany, but upon Hitler's rise to power in 1933 he was forced to leave the country. In 1942 he founded The Orgone Institute and acquired an estate in Maine which was dubbed Orgonon. Reich came to believe that his theoretical "orgone energy" was not merely the result of sexual repression, but was the fundamental energy of the universe -- and that harnessing this energy through his "orgone accumulators" could alter the fundamental properties of matter, or even change the world's climate, creating rain on command.
In 1954, the American Food and Drug Administration issued an injunction against Reich for transporting his orgone accumulators across state lines. Refusing to appear at an FDA hearing -- he deemed orgone energy to be a matter of the utmost national security, and refused to divuge its alleged secrets -- Reich was charged with criminal contempt and was sentenced to two years imprisonment. Reich died in a Federal Penitentiary at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania on 3 November 1957. Although Reich was demonstrably insane, it remains tragic that the FDA was able to order his books withdrawn from public circulation and summarily destroyed.
Reich's son Peter, nine years old at the time of his father's imprisonment, wrote as an adult the autobiographical memoir A Book Of Dreams, which recounts his memories of his father. This book inspired the song Cloudbusting; in the video for the song, Wilhelm Reich -- or a fictionalized avatar of Reich -- is portayed by actor Donald Sutherland. A link to the Wilhelm Reich Museum in Rangely, Maine. I Mapquested, and Rangely is about 130 miles from Portland. For whatever that's worth. So there it is. It's probably nothing, but *shrugs*. Now, about Ben and Jacob. I have a theory. Jacob isn't a real man, he's Ben's projection, face of the island, polar bear or what have you. Jacob is Ben. Ben is Jacob. They have a ... connection. Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes... Ben came to the island when he was about Walt's age (from the look of it). Like Walt, Ben was resentful, disliked his dad, and didn't want to be there. I think the island woke some power Ben had, and that power manifested first as Ben's mother, and then as "Jacob", Ben's imaginary friend. Nobody but Ben can see or hear Jacob. When Ben goes back to the Dharma village after he's killed his dad, Ben is the only one who talks to Jacob. The other men who are removing the bodies didn't seem to notice Jacob at all.It's no wonder Ben reacted so badly when Locke heard Jacob - Jacob is Ben's, and Ben doesn't share well, at least not when it comes to the power of the island. About Locke: I don't think Locke is going to die - he's the island's new bestest minion. He'll get better. My mistake. I got Jacob and Richard confused. Oopsies. Anyway, nobody can see Jacob except Ben, so, imaginary friend. |
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Post by Lola m on May 14, 2007 16:58:00 GMT -5
I thought YoungBen looked a bit older than Walt, but I really like the connection between the two,Ben talked to Jacob when he went back to the Dharma villiage? I thought he just talked to Richard. Or do you mean off screen? My mistake. I got Jacob and Richard confused. Oopsies. Anyway, nobody can see Jacob except Ben, so, imaginary friend. I really like your idea that Jacob is a projection, taking on all sorts of appearances. I also think he is, in some way, the smoke monster, the bear, etc. And your comment about no one looking at Richard actually brings up something I was thinking about too. Because, why does he look the same age? I had been thinking that perhaps all the hostiles don't age, but now you have me wondering about just Richard himself. Is he "special" in a way that is different from the other hostiles? Ben certainly did not like that Locke had been talking to Richard about things!!! I like your comparison of Benry to Walt as well - there are certainly similarities worth watching for. |
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Post by RAKSHA on May 14, 2007 21:04:18 GMT -5
This is what I think will happen, well, one of the things I think will happen, in the season finale:
Locke will survive, and become the leader of the Others, replacing Ben as Jacob's acolyte. Jacob is the soul of the Island, the power, whatever you want to call it, a force that can be shaped by various special humans into a focus for their beliefs; and it has chosen Locke.
I'm not sure whether Ben will die or not - he seems to be a perverse 'brother' to Locke; Locke arranged his father's murder as Ben arranged his father's murder, and they are both have a special relationship to "Jacob'.
The rest of the series will build as, among other things, a confrontation between Locke and those that follow him (possibly the Others, or those that are left of them) and Jack and his group; a conflict of Faith against Reason...
Of course, I could be totally wrong. 
GAIL
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