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Post by Matthew on Jan 12, 2005 4:09:25 GMT -5
I think it had to be them. I thought I saw robes. And I was not really happy with Veronica bugging the office. I mean, she (and we) got some information that may prove very important and it did lead her right to the Titons, but still. It made me feel ooky on her behalf. Listening in on private counseling sessions is very different than planting a camera to watch a money drop spot. Lola True... I didn't get so much of the "ook" factor, I guess, because I sympathize with her "just wanna know" thing. But it also figures into what kind of person Keith raised her to be... No one has a right to any secrets from her: perhaps because she does not respect the concept of the secret when it doesn't apply to her. But more likely as a defensive concept. I'm willing to bet that her disregarding the concept of personal privacy is related to the hell her life became in the wake of her friend's murder. You see the discomfort in her eyes at the.... "sleaziness" of her father's profession, when Rick is bellyaching about how Keith busted his father, even though the guy deserved to be caught. I mean, c'mon, "no bonus" gives someone a moral right to embezzle? Jayzus. And speaking of sleaze: I just want to bitch about our litigious society for just a moment. Why on Earth would ANY judge with any judgement whatsoever even hear cases like that? When it's a case of "Well, he was stupid, he's paying for it" even if he were not the generator of the fake ID in the first place. I mean, that part of the ep had complete credibility because of the frivolous lawsuits running out the yin-yang. A woman burning herself on hot coffee, suing and winning because the coffee was hot? (to cite the most prevalent example of lititgous asshattery) *Forcibly removes self from soapbox before foam starts appearing in mouth*
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Post by Pixi on Jan 12, 2005 7:55:03 GMT -5
Very full. We go from an ep with lots of subtexty stuff that might be a metaphor for Lily's murder or the stuff going on at Neptune high to one where we get so many possible leads and plot points that I'm like . . . wow. Definitely have to re-watch this one. I thought this was a fantastic episode. And I agree - so many, many things happening in this episode. Lines I love: Say repressed homosexuality. Veronica Mars is smarter than me Shut your mouth (the Shaft come back line) Sigh. I love this show - so, so well written. I wanted to hug Logan so much and Weevil. The karaoke - Kristen Bell was absolutely fantastic - she sounded great and did a terrific job. Love the song too! The lips - seriously scary, again. I think the jump is a red herring though. Very classic mystery book fakeout sort of thing. I was looking for Spike and the demon too! I like how they turned it upside down though and made the secret society innocent. Rob Thomas just rocks! Fantastic episode!
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Post by Pixi on Jan 12, 2005 7:59:47 GMT -5
True... I didn't get so much of the "ook" factor, I guess, because I sympathize with her "just wanna know" thing. But it also figures into what kind of person Keith raised her to be... No one has a right to any secrets from her: perhaps because she does not respect the concept of the secret when it doesn't apply to her. But more likely as a defensive concept. I'm willing to bet that her disregarding the concept of personal privacy is related to the hell her life became in the wake of her friend's murder. You see the discomfort in her eyes at the.... "sleaziness" of her father's profession, when Rick is bellyaching about how Keith busted his father, even though the guy deserved to be caught. I mean, c'mon, "no bonus" gives someone a moral right to embezzle? Jayzus. And speaking of sleaze: I just want to bitch about our litigious society for just a moment. Why on Earth would ANY judge with any judgement whatsoever even hear cases like that? When it's a case of "Well, he was stupid, he's paying for it" even if he were not the generator of the fake ID in the first place. I mean, that part of the ep had complete credibility because of the frivolous lawsuits running out the yin-yang. A woman burning herself on hot coffee, suing and winning because the coffee was hot? (to cite the most prevalent example of lititgous asshattery) *Forcibly removes self from soapbox before foam starts appearing in mouth* I have to say - that given VM's character, this seemed like something she would do to me. She has consistently made choices that are borderline ethical in her quest for truth and I think she feels that the end justifies the means here. But I did see the pain in her eyes at the sherriff's office. KB conveyed her conflicts very well in that scene. As a paralegal (by day - musical theatre teacher by night - hee - I sound like a superhero), although the parents of drunk boy may have tried to sue, the case would not have gone very far. Liability in premise cases like that is going to be very difficult to prove. And yes, everybody and his brother is trying to sue someone else but - at least at the area where I live and work - these type of frivilous lawsuits usually don't get past the call an attorney, have some meetings, do some background information searching - before it is dismissed stage.
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Post by raenstorm on Jan 12, 2005 8:03:41 GMT -5
Yes - it seems to be conclusive now: they were a romantic item. But Logan knows nothing about that, I guess. Duncan: A terrible singer. Then he speaks in gibberish. Something is very very wrong there. Kind of a "sins of the father" thing going on in the episode. Lots of references to what dad did. Sheriff Lamb continues to impress me as a guy who actually believes himself to be doing what's best - I mean, I don't see him as an evil-doer, but rather as someone whose personal weaknesses and failings make him easily manipulated. Needs a rewatch really, but hey, it's Sue's turn! And once again, I curse whatever powers have moved VM to 11pm around here. Everyone is gone. And will be on to Lost tomorrow. Night! I got the impression the gibberish speak was just so that he wouldn't have to answer Veronica's questions about the Tritons.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 12, 2005 8:08:37 GMT -5
I got the impression the gibberish speak was just so that he wouldn't have to answer Veronica's questions about the Tritons. I agree. This was the point where I got home (fortunately the tape was working) and I was busy organizing pixikins for dinner, bed, etc. and halfway listening thinking what in the world - is this supposed to make sense. I liked Sheriff Lamb last night for the first time. I loved, loved, loved the scene in the his office with the walking into the courtroom with a little something extra line and the smarter than me - oh come on shove. Hee, hee. Best episode yet -and I keep saying that.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:14:33 GMT -5
I got the impression the gibberish speak was just so that he wouldn't have to answer Veronica's questions about the Tritons. Oh - I agree. But that image of Duncan being a terrible singer and speaking in gibberish . . . it just got to me, because . . . that's the way he speaks about Lilly's murder. Things just make no sense. He knows something but he's a terrible "singer."
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:15:22 GMT -5
I just got word, actually. Lynn is just fine; turns out her lips can be used as flotation devices. LOLOLOL! So true!
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Post by raenstorm on Jan 12, 2005 8:16:37 GMT -5
I enjoyed last night's show. In fact, I was annoyed at myself for erasing from my DVR because I wanted to rewatch bits and pieces, especially the karoake park!
I'm with Rob - I just can't see Weevil or Logan opening up to anyone. Also, I find it interesting that mention of Weevil and the letters wasn't in that file Veronica found in her Dad's safe. He said the police had already questioned him about the letters. I was trying to remember if Keith has ever seen Weevil and Veronica together. I don't think so but I'd be interested to see how he reacts to it.
Odd that the guys who pulled Veronica out of her car and took the keys out didn't think it was weird they could hear Duncan having a counseling session?? Little things like that bug me.
Overall, it was a good episode and I was feeling bad for Logan at the end. As Spring said, I definitely saw a set up for Logan to blame Veronica's dad. That would be typical since, every time they seem to develop some kind of accord again, something happens to push them further apart. Especially since he admitted he blames her for Lily's death for doing the same thing... snitching. Like father, like daughter. (Which, by the way, is why I think Veronica looked a little upset by what Rick said at the end. She definitely saw the connection.)
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Post by raenstorm on Jan 12, 2005 8:19:35 GMT -5
Oh - I agree. But that image of Duncan being a terrible singer and speaking in gibberish . . . it just got to me, because . . . that's the way he speaks about Lilly's murder. Things just make no sense. He knows something but he's a terrible "singer." Ahh! You're right. I missed that subtle comparison. Could also be making a point of their constant inability to communicate even though they definitely still have a strong connection. Or, perhaps, his inability to tell her what happened? Ok, maybe I'm just getting a little crazy with the 'hidden messages' now
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Post by Pixi on Jan 12, 2005 8:29:36 GMT -5
Another thing I really enjoyed about this episode was the characterization of Logan (and I kind of feel like I'm talking to myself at this point on the board but I really wanted to discuss the show ). I liked the way we were given a motive for the way Logan has been treating Veronica, loved the fact that he said they used to be friends. And the way he got right in his father's face to stand up for his mother. JD - fantastic job (though all the actors continue to raise the bar in their performances).
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:33:35 GMT -5
Ahh! You're right. I missed that subtle comparison. Could also be making a point of their constant inability to communicate even though they definitely still have a strong connection. Or, perhaps, his inability to tell her what happened? Ok, maybe I'm just getting a little crazy with the 'hidden messages' now Duncan - he just gives this overall impression of being . . . stiff, blocked. Something is just . . . wrong. He says his memory is blocked . . . but is that true? Remember how he faked being drunk? But whether his memory is actually blocked, or he's consciously holding things in, there's something inside Duncan that's gonna have to come out.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:35:29 GMT -5
Ahh! You're right. I missed that subtle comparison. Could also be making a point of their constant inability to communicate even though they definitely still have a strong connection. Or, perhaps, his inability to tell her what happened? Ok, maybe I'm just getting a little crazy with the 'hidden messages' now Yes, that young man playing "Logan" - what an excellent job he's doing. Everyone is really good. I especially like the portrayal of Keith also, but even the smaller roles, like the Sheriff Lamb - very well done.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:38:53 GMT -5
I thought this was a fantastic episode. And I agree - so many, many things happening in this episode. Lines I love: Say repressed homosexuality. Veronica Mars is smarter than me Shut your mouth (the Shaft come back line) Sigh. I love this show - so, so well written. I wanted to hug Logan so much and Weevil. The karaoke - Kristen Bell was absolutely fantastic - she sounded great and did a terrific job. Love the song too! The lips - seriously scary, again. I think the jump is a red herring though. Very classic mystery book fakeout sort of thing. I was looking for Spike and the demon too! I like how they turned it upside down though and made the secret society innocent. Rob Thomas just rocks! Fantastic episode! So - Logan and Lilly had broken up, and she started dating Weevil. But then she went back to Logan. But then they broke up again because Logan kissed another girl. And maybe Lilly was heading back to Weevil . . . maybe that was her "big secret" she was going to tell Veronica before her death. BUT - Lilly and Weevil kept their dalliance a complete secret, obviously. Why? Because of "class" reasons, I guess? Not wanting their parents to object and interfere?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 8:42:03 GMT -5
I agree. This was the point where I got home (fortunately the tape was working) and I was busy organizing pixikins for dinner, bed, etc. and halfway listening thinking what in the world - is this supposed to make sense. I liked Sheriff Lamb last night for the first time. I loved, loved, loved the scene in the his office with the walking into the courtroom with a little something extra line and the smarter than me - oh come on shove. Hee, hee. Best episode yet -and I keep saying that. Agree on Sheriff Lamb. I don't think he's an actively evil guy. I think he's a little thick-headed and a LOT insecure and inexperienced, and he's being manipulated by people who are "smarter than" he is, when it comes to Lilly's murder. He showed the same pattern in this show - I mean, going for the "easy answer," being easily manipulated by those who wanted him to blame Veronica.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 12, 2005 8:50:48 GMT -5
So - Logan and Lilly had broken up, and she started dating Weevil. But then she went back to Logan. But then they broke up again because Logan kissed another girl. And maybe Lilly was heading back to Weevil . . . maybe that was her "big secret" she was going to tell Veronica before her death. BUT - Lilly and Weevil kept their dalliance a complete secret, obviously. Why? Because of "class" reasons, I guess? Not wanting their parents to object and interfere? Awww - thanks for talking back at me Spring. I was starting to feel like VM in that classroom study group scene. I don't know - I don't think that was the big secret, I think we're still going to get something else from that. I like your observations about Duncan. I have really never liked his character very much but you brought up a good point about the fake drunk scene. Seeing this episode was originally supposed to air after the Echolls family Christmas episode, Duncan's behavior is definetely questionable. Notice that Logan wasn't asked to join the secret society? Another great title for the episode - Clash of the Tritons - wasn't Harry Hamlin was in Clash of the Titans? When the sheriff actually listened to Veronica in his office and went and tested the fake ID plan - that immediately put me in the liking him now camp. He may be a total jerk/idiot at times but this shows that he can actually learn something. This combined with last week's episode where again I thought he showed some self -awareness of his limitations makes me think that he will eventually realize he was used in Lily's murder.
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