|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 9:18:51 GMT -5
[/li][li]Make up my mind about the major theme, despite the warring voices in my head. [/li][li]Plunge ahead as if I had no doubts as to the absolute rightness of my conclusions. [/li][li]Ignore all snickering thoughts about how everyone is going to think I'm crazy. Type away. [/li][li]Go over it once, correcting errors. [/li][li]Ignore all inclination to rethink and revise. [/li][li]Take a deep breath. Close eyes. Send it in. [/li][li]Cover my head and irrationally wait for the criticism to pile in, as people realize what a fraud I am. [/li][li]Get so little response that I am almost wishing people would post about what a big steaming pile my review is. [/li][li]Forget all about it in no time. Go on to next week, which (yay!) isn't mine. [/li][li]Repeat.[/quote] Thanks--that's what I'm going to try to do. (Which I should be doing now, but not having posted for days I'm having too much fun.) And--------------my guilt knows no bounds as someone who read and really, really appreciated your review and yet never "found" the time to respond. and, as your fellow reviewer that is just totally reprehensible and despicable--please forgive me. I've got to learn not to think "I'll do it later."
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 9:19:54 GMT -5
Okay. It's been a delight. Gonna go do RL and review.
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 9:26:04 GMT -5
Thanks--that's what I'm going to try to do. (Which I should be doing now, but not having posted for days I'm having too much fun.) And--------------my guilt knows no bounds as someone who read and really, really appreciated your review and yet never "found" the time to respond. and, as your fellow reviewer that is just totally reprehensible and despicable--please forgive me. I've got to learn not to think "I'll do it later."You are forgiven! But don't let it happen again! Well, unless you're busy and it slips your mind and you just can't get to it . . . All is well, pardner. No worries.
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Jan 12, 2005 11:03:38 GMT -5
Excellent point about the letters. Myself--I didn't see why Veronica should feel guilty that her father had uncovered an embezzler. And the "bonus" excuse just points out that he is one of those people who commits and crime and then claims the victim forced him to commit it--double yuck! No sympathy there. Maybe what Veronica was upset about was the realization that even when one rightly uncovers the criminal there are innocent bystanders who also get hurt and that Keith/Veronica sometimes have no clue as to the fallout of their (totally justifiable) actions. I mean, Keith knew Aaron would be upset about his discovery, but told him anyway. Still--there's no way he could predict the fallout of Lynn's (?)actions. Nor do I think he should feel responsible for her. Oh, I don't think Veronica should feel guilty nor should Keith. Aaron came to Keith and paid him to find information. He could not have predicted the response. Plus, he's already shown that he's ok with what he does (when he warned Veronica about what she was doing in previous episodes, giving people more information than they may want, etc.). And, I don't think Veronica feels guilty. I just think she kinda got the connection. Rick irrationally blaming her father for his father's mistakes. Logan irrationally blaming her for his mistakes. The fact that they shouldn't blame Veronica or her dad doesn't mean that they will stop or they won't lash out. It's a risk you take and I'm not sure it was a risk that Veronica has always completely understood in the past. In the last few episodes, we've seen it starting to really sink in with her: The risk of knowing the full truth -- which, of course, is something she has to completely understand before she finds the full truth behind what happened to Lilly. Keith has already warned her about it a few times. That it may have consequences that she can not foresee and she should consider whether she is willing to take that risk or not. And, now that I've tired my brain thinking about that, I do have one question left over. If Veronica had known about Lilly and Weevil - would she have gone to Logan and told him? He was her friend. I think her loyalty was definitely with Lilly but how would it have changed things?
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Jan 12, 2005 11:11:17 GMT -5
But - he participated in setting Veronica up for that bogus bathroom encounter. I just am reserving judgment on Duncan. He's the most mysterious and remote character to me, and I think he's meant to be. He's very repressed, very used to "faking" what others want him to be, so he can get along . . . I just can't figure him out. And he's on my suspect list for killing Lilly. I don't mean that he killed her in any deliberate, premeditated, first degree murder way, but . . . well, I don't know how else to say it: Something is so wrong there. Interesting, Spring. Alanna (wisteria_) has some similar thoughts in her LJ about Duncan being a suspect (all non-spoilery), www.livejournal.com/users/wisteria_/453777.html. I definitely can see the possibility, especially since I think we are seeing Veronica being shown that there are consequences to revealing information that has been kept hidden. She has certain expectations for what may have happened and I'm definitely getting the feeling that she's going to be unhappily surprised by what actually DID happen.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 11:18:12 GMT -5
Oh, I don't think Veronica should feel guilty nor should Keith. Aaron came to Keith and paid him to find information. He could not have predicted the response. Plus, he's already shown that he's ok with what he does (when he warned Veronica about what she was doing in previous episodes, giving people more information than they may want, etc.). And, I don't think Veronica feels guilty. I just think she kinda got the connection. Rick irrationally blaming her father for his father's mistakes. Logan irrationally blaming her for his mistakes. The fact that they shouldn't blame Veronica or her dad doesn't mean that they will stop or they won't lash out. It's a risk you take and I'm not sure it was a risk that Veronica has always completely understood in the past. In the last few episodes, we've seen it starting to really sink in with her: The risk of knowing the full truth -- which, of course, is something she has to completely understand before she finds the full truth behind what happened to Lilly. Keith has already warned her about it a few times. That it may have consequences that she can not foresee and she should consider whether she is willing to take that risk or not.And, now that I've tired my brain thinking about that, I do have one question left over. If Veronica had known about Lilly and Weevil - would she have gone to Logan and told him? He was her friend. I think her loyalty was definitely with Lilly but how would it have changed things? Shooting the messenger.... bolded: really good point--same situation as Mac last week re question: um, she ratted out Logan because, well, Logan was Lilly's boyfriend and was cheating on her and Veronica thought Lilly had a "right to know the truth." (Again, it was Logan's own actions which got him in trouble---so not fair to blame Veronica---the story could have made it back to Lilly by any number of ways, but no matter: It was Logan's own actions which brought about the rift.) Now, regarding Weevil. I'm going to think she'd have gone to Lilly and argue with her about betraying Logan, but probably not told Logan. 1) At the time Logan and Lilly were broken up. (Jennifer Aniston's character on friends and the whole "on vacation" argument. ;D ) And, once Lilly got back with Logan it's clear she immediately cut things off with Weevil. 2) Her loyalties were more with Lilly, I think. Which brings up----is there any chance that we thing Weevil is now implicated as a possible suspect--the spurned lover? EDIT: Altho that makes no sense--why would the Kanes (and Abel) get invovled.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 11:19:57 GMT -5
Okay. It's been a delight. Gonna go do RL and review. And, I repeat (hoping to make it true: )
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jan 12, 2005 11:35:20 GMT -5
Did anybody else wonder if, just maybe, he was tempted to put some moves on Veronica when they were playing out the cheerleader scenario. Or--was that just a close friends thing? Very, very Xanderish--and maybe just a little: Xander yearns after unattainable Buffy but would never admit to it. (Well, Xander did, but not Wallace)? I thought for a moment - with the lowered/sexy voice and the putting his arm around Veronica, that Wallace was feeling her out, so to speak. Veronica's removing of his hand around her shoulders pretty much gave him her answer, tho.
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 12, 2005 11:39:27 GMT -5
Interesting, Spring. Alanna (wisteria_) has some similar thoughts in her LJ about Duncan being a suspect (all non-spoilery), www.livejournal.com/users/wisteria_/453777.html. I definitely can see the possibility, especially since I think we are seeing Veronica being shown that there are consequences to revealing information that has been kept hidden. She has certain expectations for what may have happened and I'm definitely getting the feeling that she's going to be unhappily surprised by what actually DID happen. Also - that "Kane & Abel" reference - the most famous "the brother did it" murder I can think of. Still - very dicey.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 15:02:50 GMT -5
FYI:
The next two weeks are repeats:
Jan 18: Episode 1:1 the Pilot.
Jan 25: Episdoe 1:3 Meet John Smith
That will everybody time to go back and read Spring's review from last week and (once I get it in) mine from this week and have lots of good discussion.
I hope that then new eps will air during Feb. sweeps and will be plot heavy. (long-term arc wise).
I'll be IMing Spring, Rob, and Erin about the review/guest review dates in the next day or so.
Sue
Does anyone know of any site where they list the episodes even further ahead? (Erin--do the spoiler sites tell when future eps will be aired? If so, maybe you can IM me just with dates and titles--thanks.)
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jan 12, 2005 15:46:34 GMT -5
Also - that "Kane & Abel" reference - the most famous "the brother did it" murder I can think of. Still - very dicey. Gah. I just had a thought. What if Lily really is Weevil's sister? I too get the feeling that something wasn't right with the whole - Lily/Weevil scenario that Weevil spelled out to the counselor. Even tho I keep wanting to be right about them being involved, I keep getting why the 'Lily was his sister' vibe is still there. But I really don't want to think that Weevil killed Lily. It's just all so messed up. Not to mention I would be at a loss to come up with a motive.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 12, 2005 17:02:15 GMT -5
Gah. I just had a thought. What if Lily really is Weevil's sister? I too get the feeling that something wasn't right with the whole - Lily/Weevil scenario that Weevil spelled out to the counselor. Even tho I keep wanting to be right about them being involved, I keep getting why the 'Lily was his sister' vibe is still there. But I really don't want to think that Weevil killed Lily. It's just all so messed up. Not to mention I would be at a loss to come up with a motive. Just rewatched (with Allie) and (unless I am over thinking this and giving Rob Thomas too much credit) I think something was definitely "off" about Weevil's session with the counselor: 1. Veronica wonders why Lilly never told her about Weevil. (I"m thinking, because that's not what happened.) 2. The counselor says Lilly wanted moved out of PE because "some boy" was bothering--she doesn't actually say that it was Weevil (in fact, the dialogue seems absolutely awkward to avoid making that direct link), even tho she produces letters from Weevil to bolster her request. 3. Now, if it really were that she was self-concious around Weevil, why didn't the counselor just say so directly? 4. not in character for him to write those letters; 5. not in character for him to talk about them; 6. still don't see him getting a tattoo based on a quick fling; 7. he wasn't terribly sympathetic to his cousin's declaration of unrequited love for a rich, upperclass, non-Hispanic girl. Seems like if he'd gone thru the same thing with Lilly he'd had been more empathetic to cousin. 8. When he tells Logan Lilly was his sister--Lilly's dead, why would he protect Logan from knowing about his love for her? No--it just doesn't add up for me. And---Ms. Kane's abuse of Lilly could be explained by knowing she's not really her daughter--as well as actually using that exact lie to keep Duncan and Veronica apart!
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Jan 13, 2005 11:48:16 GMT -5
hi all, i'm new here. i found the board via the reviews page, which had been passed on to me & i'd been reading for a bit before deciding to sign up. so there are definitely people off-board reading your reviews . i recognize some of you from buffy fandom. anyway, i've enjoyed the discussion on the new episode, and have a comment and a question: first, i'm not sure that duncan realized 'the [head] triton' was setting veronica up with the bathroom gag. he could have just been passing on the note. second, i've been wondering since the episode aired why the tritons locked veronica in the trunk of her car. does anyone have an idea of or guess as to why they did it?
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 13, 2005 12:00:41 GMT -5
hi all, i'm new here. i found the board via the reviews page, which had been passed on to me & i'd been reading for a bit before deciding to sign up. so there are definitely people off-board reading your reviews . i recognize some of you from buffy fandom. anyway, i've enjoyed the discussion on the new episode, and have a comment and a question: first, i'm not sure that duncan realized 'the [head] triton' was setting veronica up with the bathroom gag. he could have just been passing on the note. second, i've been wondering since the episode aired why the tritons locked veronica in the trunk of her car. does anyone have an idea of or guess as to why they did it? Oh - a n'ubie. We love sweet, tender n'ubies around here! Welcome, artemis. Glad you've enjoyed the reviews and discussion. But - anyhow - good point about Duncan possibly just handing Veronica a note that somone asked him to hand her, maybe even without even reading it, but . . . for no real reason besides the very subjective "vibe" reason, I thought he was in on the bathroom thing. On the locking her in the trunk . . . I'd have to rewatch. Oh - except I lent my tape to someone and I can't rewatch. So . . . my very sketchy memory tells me that since she was being such a persisent and snoopy pest, they wanted her securely out of the way, and unable to interrupt their upcoming ritual. I suppose they intended to come get her out of there as soon as it was over? Seems like a foolishly dangerous thing to do though. People can die, locked in trunks. Maybe someone else remembers something?
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 15, 2005 10:27:11 GMT -5
Sue: Just read your review - thanks for the little summary in the beginning showing the progress of the show and the common threads. Interesting thought about Weevil not actually being the guy who wrote the love letters to Lilly. But IF Weevil is her brother, I don't think that implies that Celeste isn't her mother. I think it implies that Jake is Weevil's father - having had an affair with the maid, or some such thing. Especially liked the discussion of "unexpected consequences." I wonder if Lilly's death might not have been an "unexpected consequence of. . ." ugh. I am so lost when it comes to this show. But I'm thinking more and more clues will be coming our way. You said: "I wonder who around Veronica will suffer unexpected consequences of her determination to discover the truth behind Lilly's murder?" I'd say, count on it - it will be Veronica! Whatever the answer is, I think we've been given quite a few clues that it will be devastating for Veronica. You mentioned the unanswered question about the rape: Could Rick have raped Veronica? He had a huge grudge against her. I just can't figure that it will be any of the main male characters, because, we've seen too much of them, and none of them fit the bill. They have their faults, and some major faults, but none seem quite THAT nasty. And Vernoica does mention her rape in this episode, and there's some phallic imagery in it. Though - not much drama in a revelation that a character like "Rick" did it. Well . . . maybe if you consider that it links back to Keith's actions, some drama could be milked. Sigh. I dunno. I'm still with Rob in wishing the rape story line had never been thrown into the mix. Maybe I will change my mind when I see how it is resolved and how it fits into the whole picture. YES! Security at NHS does suck. Kind of reminds me of Sunnydale High. I miss Principal Snyder. On the title, Clash of the Tritons, no doubt it was a bit of a bow to, and elbow in the rib to, Mr Hamlin, but titles always mean more than just that. Who was clashing in this episode? Lynn & Aaron, right over top of Logan's head . . . certainlly, they are the "Titans" in Logan's life. When giants clash, the little people get hurt? Going back to your "consequences" theme? Don't know. And since I'm not the reviewer this week, I don't have to come to a conclusion! Yay, me! So . . . what's the title of the next new ep? Thanks for the great review, Sue. EDIT: I see it is Lord of the Bling. Hmmm.
|
|