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Post by Sue on Jan 15, 2005 12:40:43 GMT -5
Sue: Interesting thought about Weevil not actually being the guy who wrote the love letters to Lilly. But IF Weevil is her brother, I don't think that implies that Celeste isn't her mother. I think it implies that Jake is Weevil's father - having had an affair with the maid, or some such thing. . Actually, I think he wrote the letters--I just don't think he wrote them as actual love letters to Lilly---they just don't fit the character to me. My current theory: Lilly wanted out of PE due to some creepy guy. She went to big brother Weevil (yes indeed he is her brother--that's her secret which she was keeping from Veronica) to help her. He wrote the letters to give her a reason to change classes. The sheriff grilled him about the letters, he told him the same story he stuck with for Ms. James. Regarding why the letters weren't in Keith's case file (which we really must assume (thanks to whomever pointed this out earlier on the thread) because hasn't Veronica seen everything in the file?): Either a) Veronica hasn't seen everything in the file--Keith actually has some secrets; b) Weevil actually told Keith the truth, Keith believed him and for privacy reasons made no note in his file; c) Weevil stuck to his story, but Keith didn't think it was relevent to the case and made no note; d) oops--the writers missed this point. I'm going with either b or d, even tho d is a much simpler explanation.
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Post by Sue on Jan 15, 2005 12:45:27 GMT -5
hi all, i'm new here. i found the board via the reviews page, which had been passed on to me & i'd been reading for a bit before deciding to sign up. so there are definitely people off-board reading your reviews . i recognize some of you from buffy fandom. anyway, i've enjoyed the discussion on the new episode, and have a comment and a question: first, i'm not sure that duncan realized 'the [head] triton' was setting veronica up with the bathroom gag. he could have just been passing on the note. second, i've been wondering since the episode aired why the tritons locked veronica in the trunk of her car. does anyone have an idea of or guess as to why they did it? Oooooo, I'm doing my best "Sally Field at the Oscars" impersonation. Thanks for the positive reinforcement! And for de-lurking and joining the discussion. Keeping her out of the way sounds about right to me. They left her with the cell phone AND the keys in the trunk so I don't believe they meant her any permanent harm. Gives me the creeps just thinking about it. ------------------ Thought about the Tritons: athletic AND smart AND goodlooking AND popular---amazing they could find 6 junior guys to fit that mold! (who were "smart" but also stupid enough to participate in hazing and secret rituals). Don't know why I'm surprised--you read about it in the papers (the hazing stuff) all the time. It's so sad the lengths kids will go to to feel "included."
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Post by artemis on Jan 15, 2005 18:04:56 GMT -5
thanks for the welcomes what i found oddest about them locking her in her trunk was that she didn't seem to be doing a very good job of finding them until they did it. once they did, it made her a lot angrier, giving her a lot more motivation to find them (and leaving her locked up close to their meeting spot also seemed like it wasn't the greatest plan). but then again, they probably had no way of knowing exactly how close she was to finding them out, so perhaps it was simply a pre-emptory strike.
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Post by Sue on Jan 15, 2005 18:23:33 GMT -5
thanks for the welcomes what i found oddest about them locking her in her trunk was that she didn't seem to be doing a very good job of finding them until they did it. once they did, it made her a lot angrier, giving her a lot more motivation to find them (and leaving her locked up close to their meeting spot also seemed like it wasn't the greatest plan). but then again, they probably had no way of knowing exactly how close she was to finding them out, so perhaps it was simply a pre-emptory strike. Well, I don't know if she was more motivated or just danged lucky--what with Wallace getting her out just in time to overhear them on her car car radio. I will say this--as Secret Societies go they seemed pretty harmless---going out and singing, setting her up for a pretty mild prank (in the bathroom). Putting her in the trunk wasn't much fun but I didn't feel that any real harm was intended--not given the cell phone and car keys. It probably never ocurred to them that she had the school bugged. Once she nailed Rick and got herself off the hook she had no grudge against the Tritons.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 15, 2005 19:20:40 GMT -5
thanks for the welcomes what i found oddest about them locking her in her trunk was that she didn't seem to be doing a very good job of finding them until they did it. once they did, it made her a lot angrier, giving her a lot more motivation to find them (and leaving her locked up close to their meeting spot also seemed like it wasn't the greatest plan). but then again, they probably had no way of knowing exactly how close she was to finding them out, so perhaps it was simply a pre-emptory strike. Interesting insight - it is Veronica's way to be motivated by anger and revenge, at this point in time.
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Post by Karen on Jan 16, 2005 0:15:58 GMT -5
Sue, I just read your revew and I gotta say I think it's your best yet! I especially enjoyed your outlining each episode and how it related to identity. Also, I never thought about how pills are such an important part of the show before. I'll be watching for this not so minor detail from now on. The first half of the season has set the story up very nicely. I can't wait to see where they go with it. Thanks for a great review. ETA: One thing you mentioned, I had thought about the other day - how are the Tritons able to hold their secret society doings in the school without getting caught? I think that the elder Tritons (parents of current Tritons) and some of the Neptune High School faculty are intertwined in some way. In one of the previous episode, I got the distinct feeling that the teachers needed to conform to a certain code of conduct that benefitted the richer and more influential kids and their parents. I wonder if that will figure into the mystery at all.
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Post by Sue on Jan 16, 2005 8:53:13 GMT -5
Sue, I just read your revew and I gotta say I think it's your best yet! I especially enjoyed your outlining each episode and how it related to identity. Also, I never thought about how pills are such an important part of the show before. I'll be watching for this not so minor detail from now on. The first half of the season has set the story up very nicely. I can't wait to see where they go with it. Thanks for a great review. ETA: One thing you mentioned, I had thought about the other day - how are the Tritons able to hold their secret society doings in the school without getting caught? I think that the elder Tritons (parents of current Tritons) and some of the Neptune High School faculty are intertwined in some way. In one of the previous episode, I got the distinct feeling that the teachers needed to conform to a certain code of conduct that benefitted the richer and more influential kids and their parents. I wonder if that will figure into the mystery at all. Karen, Thanks for the nice compliment. Spring's advice helped. Instead of trying to mention every little thing I just looked for one or two repeated ideas and went with them. I'll bet you could go back over all 12 episodes and do the same thing with "unexpected consequences/unintended victims" as I did with identity. ---------------- Sigh. I continue to be bugged by Duncan being a Triton pledge because the pledges were all supposed to be juniors. This cannot mesh with the comment in "Return of the Kane" that he is a National Merit Scholar (they aren't named until Sept of senior year). PLUS--that would put him in the same grade as Veronica and (presumably) Lilly----altho there is no evidence to prohibit Lilly from being a year behind Veronica. This is not wankable. This is a just plain goof. I will now let it go.
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Post by Karen on Jan 16, 2005 11:54:03 GMT -5
Karen, Thanks for the nice compliment. Spring's advice helped. Instead of trying to mention every little thing I just looked for one or two repeated ideas and went with them. I'll bet you could go back over all 12 episodes and do the same thing with "unexpected consequences/unintended victims" as I did with identity. ---------------- Sigh. I continue to be bugged by Duncan being a Triton pledge because the pledges were all supposed to be juniors. This cannot mesh with the comment in "Return of the Kane" that he is a National Merit Scholar (they aren't named until Sept of senior year). PLUS--that would put him in the same grade as Veronica and (presumably) Lilly----altho there is no evidence to prohibit Lilly from being a year behind Veronica. This is not wankable. This is a just plain goof. I will now let it go. I wondered about Duncan myself. I didn't notice what color robe he had on or if he was one of the 6 kneeling pledges. Maybe he missed the ceremony last year and the Tritons made an exception? I thought he was a Senior, too. Trying hard to fanwank for ya.
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Post by Sue on Jan 16, 2005 12:21:47 GMT -5
I wondered about Duncan myself. I didn't notice what color robe he had on or if he was one of the 6 kneeling pledges. Maybe he missed the ceremony last year and the Tritons made an exception? I thought he was a Senior, too. Trying hard to fanwank for ya. By Jove, I think maybe you've got it. I'll have to rewatch. So, he wasn't a pledge---he was one of the senior members---which also makes sense because the pledges were supposed to be ignorant but Duncan knew who to approach at the club with Veronica's request. (Which I had also wondered about.) Great catch!
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Post by Karen on Jan 16, 2005 13:38:10 GMT -5
By Jove, I think maybe you've got it. I'll have to rewatch. So, he wasn't a pledge---he was one of the senior members---which also makes sense because the pledges were supposed to be ignorant but Duncan knew who to approach at the club with Veronica's request. (Which I had also wondered about.) Great catch! Aw, thanks. *blushes* I only half-watched the ep because of family interruptus. Just think how totally awesome my posts would be if I had really been paying attention. ;D Seriously, I'll be interested to see what you come up when you watch your tape. For some reason, that little detail was bugging me, too.
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Post by artemis on Jan 16, 2005 13:44:13 GMT -5
Interesting insight - it is Veronica's way to be motivated by anger and revenge, at this point in time. that part of the episode reminded me strongly of spike's line in the buffy episode "passion" about how all angel would get with his strategy was one brassed-off slayer.
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Post by artemis on Jan 16, 2005 13:47:39 GMT -5
So, he wasn't a pledge---he was one of the senior members---which also makes sense because the pledges were supposed to be ignorant but Duncan knew who to approach at the club with Veronica's request. (Which I had also wondered about.) i believe it was rick who told veronica that duncan was a pledge--so he might have misspoken (perhaps even deliberately, to further upset veronica?).
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Post by Sue on Jan 16, 2005 13:53:52 GMT -5
i believe it was rick who told veronica that duncan was a pledge--so he might have misspoken (perhaps even deliberately, to further upset veronica?). See--this is why these discussions are so helpful. Altho--(I'm really going to have to rewatch now) did he say Duncan was a pledge? (I thought they weren't supposed to know each other.) Or maybe he was saying Duncan, et al, were the current senior members? Still confused, but with no new ep, I'll rewatch sometime this week and see if I can figure it out.
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Post by artemis on Jan 16, 2005 13:58:24 GMT -5
Altho--(I'm really going to have to rewatch now) did he say Duncan was a pledge? (I thought they weren't supposed to know each other.) Or maybe he was saying Duncan, et al, were the current senior members? i believe he said that duncan was the last pledge out of the six of this year's crop (though obviously rick and his friend weren't really pledges--i wonder who the other ones really were?).
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Post by Lola m on Jan 17, 2005 11:55:07 GMT -5
Sue! What a great review!
First off, what a good idea to look back at the first half of the season. This show has such a good way of blending the case of the week with the longer arcs of Lily's murder ("who did it" identity), Veronica's parentage ("who am I" identity) etc., that it makes sense to step back and take the big view for a moment.
You really nailed the overall theme here. And, as you say, Identity is so very very the appropriate metaphor to use with a detective show featuring teenagers. As you said, this goes way beyond just the surface idea of who Veronica's father really is. You put it really well:
In recent eps in particular, Veronica has run up against the "do you really want to know" question as it relates to herself in several different ways.
I liked how you tied this in with your paragraphs on unexpected consequences. Reading your review and then Spring's comment, wondering if somehow Lily's murder might somehow have been an "unexpected consequence", I just was all - ooooh, yes! Not in an, oooh I solved the murder way, just that somehow this feels right. Feels like it may be part of the answer.
Really liked your "tally" of questions answered, not answered and newly added. Part of me wonders, when we look back on the full season, which of the individual answers and clues we got from episode to episode will turn out to be the ones that solve the mystery of Lily's murder. I know we must have more of them in our hands right now and we just don't see it.
Once again, very very nice review, Sue!
Lola
;D ;D I also loved loved loved Veronica and Wallace and poor poor Logan.
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