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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 9, 2005 13:10:37 GMT -5
I tend to agree that if the writers are doing their job that the rape should end up being related in some way to Lily's murder and committed by someone we can relate to. To have it otherwise would make it, as monumental in Veronica's life though it has to be, in some way incidental to the season's arc. I know it would not impact me story-wise as much if it turned out "oh, by the way, the rapist was XXX Unknown/Unconnected Character Out of the Blue". I tend to agree as well, except I can't reconcile that idea with the male characters that we know. There isn't a one of them that fits the bill. I mean, this theory is well and good, but who amongst the guys on the show: 1) Seems capable of such a thing and 2) Could survive as a character anyone gave a damn about, if we learn he raped Veronica? This is where I am having a problem. The daughter does a half-way decent job with the Italian. The mother - it's a massacre. AND HEY! Who read wykbbb's great news that VERONICA MARS has been picked up for a second season?? Hooray!!!
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Post by Rob on Apr 10, 2005 11:14:38 GMT -5
AND HEY! Who read wykbbb's great news that VERONICA MARS has been picked up for a second season?? Hooray!!! I did see that, and feel very relieved and happy. With West Wing's renewal for a 7th season, that gives me one more year of a status quo of well-written television. Though the above sentence is simply awful. Explains why I don't write television, I suppose. Now we have to hope the viewership catches on; it would do a world of good if UPN had a flagship show to use as a lead-in, but there simply is no such thing. In a perfect world, UPN would pick up Tru Calling and use that, but I suppose that's asking too much.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 10, 2005 21:11:09 GMT -5
Another literate and smart review, Spring!
All the ways the title of the episode play out (most of which are themes we've been seeing all through the season) are, I'm sure, large clues to solving the mystery of Lily's murder. Rivalry, anger stemming from a feeling of unfairness, the complications of love, the push and pull between parents and children.
Your evidence that Jake and Celeste are trying to cover for what they believe Duncan did is compelling, and would tend to send us in a direction away from the Kane family as actual suspects. But is that just Rob Thomas twisting the plot on us one more time? (Liked the shower = lie connection; clever.)
I somehow keep coming back to Hamilton Cho. He was an impressive character. Fathers and sons . . . what parents will do for and to their children . . . it's all trying to tell us something.
Again, thanks for your thought provoking and excellent ideas, Spring!
Lola
ETA: Kudo's to Sunworshipper for making the stepmother comment understandable!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 11, 2005 8:35:07 GMT -5
Another literate and smart review, Spring! Thanks, Lola. If you mean could Jake or Celeste have done it - my feeling is that such a thing is not impossible, but would constitute over-the-top plot-twisting of the oooky variety. Just a personal opinion, but such a twist would be enough of a "groaner" to me that unless it's done with in a manner I can't currently imagine, I'd have a hard time sticking with the show. Misleads, even fairly clumsy ones, I don't have much trouble accepting. And I love a good mislead, the kind that when the truth is revealed, you think - "oh, brilliant! I should have realized!" But twists that don't seem to be staying true to the overall arc or characters, that require me to hurt my neck trying to follow them - blech. You're welcome!
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Post by leftylady on Apr 11, 2005 17:49:46 GMT -5
I tend to agree as well, except I can't reconcile that idea with the male characters that we know. There isn't a one of them that fits the bill. I mean, this theory is well and good, but who amongst the guys on the show: 1) Seems capable of such a thing and 2) Could survive as a character anyone gave a damn about, if we learn he raped Veronica? This is where I am having a problem. Yes, I'm with you on the problem in reconciling what we clearly know at this point with the main male characters being involved. Weevil wouldn't have been invited to the rich kids party. Wallace wasn't around back then. Who does that leave us of the high school aged males? Duncan and Logan and anyone else? The buddies from the pinata scam? But still what motive would connect those guys to Lily's murder? I can't see it being one of the older generation - Aaron or heaven forbid possible-father-to-Veronica Jake!! We're back to the dilemma because I'll be disappointed if the writers can't someway, somehow, tie the rape to the murder. I hope they have something very creative up their sleeves.
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Post by Sue on Apr 11, 2005 22:21:44 GMT -5
Yes, I'm with you on the problem in reconciling what we clearly know at this point with the main male characters being involved. Weevil wouldn't have been invited to the rich kids party. Wallace wasn't around back then. Who does that leave us of the high school aged males? Duncan and Logan and anyone else? The buddies from the pinata scam? But still what motive would connect those guys to Lily's murder? I can't see it being one of the older generation - Aaron or heaven forbid possible-father-to-Veronica Jake!! We're back to the dilemma because I'll be disappointed if the writers can't someway, somehow, tie the rape to the murder. I hope they have something very creative up their sleeves. Sheriff Lamb? Someone paid by Clarence Weidman--the motive being that Veronica would tell Keith (or Lianne? was she still in the picture at this point?) and further distract him from pursuing the investigation or even leave town with Veronica to "recover." A friend of Duncan's, thinking that he was getting some type of weird revenge on the Mars family for the Kane family? Maybe she was drugged, but then Duncan actually slept with her thinking he was making love to her?
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 12, 2005 8:50:38 GMT -5
Nah. He's kinda creepy, but not evil. So a paid stranger? Hmmmm. Hmmmm. Veronica was generally being treated very badly by her classmates at this point. It could have been some kind of twisted revenge motive, or just someone just thinking she was an easy target, and he could get away with doing something like this to her - no one would listen to her. Which is what happened. Erin mentioned something like this too, but I'm not understanding this one. What I mean is, I can't imagine circumstances where she is so drugged up that she doesn't even remember the incident, yet lucid enough that Duncan thinks she is in possession of her senses. Also, they had already broken up, and he possibly though Veronica was his sister, etc. . .
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Post by Sue on Apr 12, 2005 9:59:47 GMT -5
Nah. He's kinda creepy, but not evil. So a paid stranger? Hmmmm. Hmmmm. Veronica was generally being treated very badly by her classmates at this point. It could have been some kind of twisted revenge motive, or just someone just thinking she was an easy target, and he could get away with doing something like this to her - no one would listen to her. Which is what happened. Erin mentioned something like this too, but I'm not understanding this one. What I mean is, I can't imagine circumstances where she is so drugged up that she doesn't even remember the incident, yet lucid enough that Duncan thinks she is in possession of her senses. Also, they had already broken up, and he possibly though Veronica was his sister, etc. . . Well, I wasn't necessarily serious about some of the suggestions. It was late and I was mostly just demonstrating that there are possibilities. Another one: that guy she dated for about 3-4 episodes who turned out to be a big creep. He was a friend of Duncan's; could have heard about Veronica previously from Duncan; was in town visiting and took advantage of her state. Fits his personality.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 12, 2005 11:56:59 GMT -5
Well, I wasn't necessarily serious about some of the suggestions. It was late and I was mostly just demonstrating that there are possibilities. Another one: that guy she dated for about 3-4 episodes who turned out to be a big creep. He was a friend of Duncan's; could have heard about Veronica previously from Duncan; was in town visiting and took advantage of her state. Fits his personality. Troy. My personal hope is that we never see or hear of him again, but who knows. Are you ready to exercise your reviewing muscles tonight, pardner?
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Post by Pixi on Apr 12, 2005 15:29:21 GMT -5
Troy. My personal hope is that we never see or hear of him again, but who knows. Are you ready to exercise your reviewing muscles tonight, pardner? I loathed Troy so its fine with me if he is the rapist. Course that means he would have to guest star but as long as its not someone I care about.
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Post by Sue on Apr 12, 2005 16:53:15 GMT -5
Troy. My personal hope is that we never see or hear of him again, but who knows. Are you ready to exercise your reviewing muscles tonight, pardner? Primed and ready. It's been forever since I wrote one. Supposedly my day is pretty free tomorrow (Jim out of town and Allie with school or church stuff pretty much from 7 am until 9 pm). But we know how that goes! I'm going to go look up the ep title and open a thread (in case I forget later).
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Post by leftylady on Apr 12, 2005 17:19:27 GMT -5
I loathed Troy so its fine with me if he is the rapist. Course that means he would have to guest star but as long as its not someone I care about. Suits me fine too. The other guy on the Tijuana pintata trip seemed too nice at heart, but I never really liked Troy. I don't have early episodes taped so can't check, but it seems to me Troy made some comment to Veronica upon meeting her about not believing everything he'd heard. That stuck me as "hmm... what exactly had he heard?" Would fit perfectly with him being the culprit. Motive? Just being a louse would do.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 2, 2006 21:48:23 GMT -5
And Clarence got there first. Oh, no he didn't. nice.
manipulative, Veronica.
orgy of tension
Ech, it's the home improvement kid
homecoming picture as her wallpaper
D'oh, she ripped up the check?
Abel koontz came up with streaming video. Ahh...
overbearing mom alert.
the old baby carriage trick.
the innocent rarely lurk. unless you're a PI
sultans of acid.
this place is $70 a night? What a dump.
see the wheels turning in veronica's head
the Lily Kane scholarship
nice flashback cinematography
So both Veronica and Duncan are in the top 5
nice music
this girl looks a little like Tara
And Veronica's in trouble
Duncan had a fit of rage that week that Duncan broke up with Veronica. Which NotANarc mentioned as well.
Ah, Vinnie was behind the harrassment
He stuck his hand in his pocket without washing his hands? Ew.
it was his father.
sneaky.
So a new openess between Veronica and Keith
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 2, 2006 21:53:49 GMT -5
From Spring's review:
Ooh, nice catch!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 2, 2006 21:59:50 GMT -5
I think its Mr. Kane. I think he's a thoroughly nasty sort. Lily was acting out a lot - I think she had a lot of anger about something. And I haven't forgotten Veronica being raped by someone...was that party at the Kane house or somewhere else? Really? I mean, yes, a philanderer he is, but we haven't seen evil behavior on the level of Aaron Echolls. Hey, maybe it was Aaron Echolls! (Just speculation, not a spoiler.) I'll have to think of a plausible reason why, though...but she was dating his son... Dude.
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