|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Sept 29, 2005 17:46:05 GMT -5
yeah, veronica-with-duncan kept reminding me of connor-with-cordelia. (and it's not just because both pairings make/made me feel queasy when i look/ed at them.  ) she seems like she's either feeling insecure about her relationship or like she's trying so hard to prove it to everybody else. either way i'd say "normal is the watchword" is a very appropriate summary for this episode - normal is definitely what she's attempting to achieve here, though it's not surprisingly already falling apart on her. i can't begin to imagine what it's like to know you *didn't* die because someone else had a vendetta against you (and be left wondering if the other people *did* die for the same reason? or because someone had one against your ex?). No, that would be Logan & Mrs. Casablancas.... Yes - the similarities stare you right in the face on that one, don't they? But seriously, since they don't have the mother-child connection, Logan-Mrs C don't squick me nearly as badly as Connor-Cordelia. Logan is doing the dad thing in reverse here - I just hope Mrs C doesn't kill him the way dad did Lilly! Also, we really got a look at Logan's temper and tendency toward resolving his problems with violence. He seems to have a much sweeter temperament by nature than Aaron, but definitely, he's learned from dad. Veronica was right to break up with him - he left her little choice. I do think they are the hottest pairing, and very much alike underneath it all, but he's got a lot of growing up to do. Agree that the V/D pairing is comparatively chemistry-lacking. I don't think we're gonna see Veronica/Weevil . . . but maybe. |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Sept 29, 2005 17:54:28 GMT -5
Oh I don't feel you're against me. I'm just saying I am on Logan's side here. I felt Veronica was very much a podVeronica last night. She showed very little emotion and I honestly feel cheated. I didn't get the Veronica of season 1. Granted I get that's what they are trying to show us. She wants Normal and this is her idea of normal. (color me bored) I guess Normal = Stalker Duncan. I'm not asking to change Logan to a perky version of me for example. I'm just saying that his character was changing at the end of the season. He told Dick to evaporate if he didn't like his girlfriend. He told Veronica he was sorry about bringing the drug to the party. Suddenly he's back to hey - let's burn down the pool? I don't buy it and I'm not interested in that for his character. I understand that long-term they probably have things planned long-term but RT pissed off huge portions of his fan base last night. Not really the best of plans for a show struggling for ratings. I'm not saying give Logan a free pass but honestly KB showed so little emotion in her scenes with Logan (as compared to last season) and she was so all over Duncan that at times I was wondering what show I was watching. I knew all this was coming mind you as I was spoiled for this episode but I was hoping to see things played that showed more than what I was reading and sadly I think it played worse than we were expecting. We as in those who like Logan and his character. As I said - there was a lot I liked. I still love the show, I still love the characters. I'm just disappointed at the way they have kind of whitewashed Duncan's past (violent rages, sleeping with I thought that was my sister and leaving her alone the next day, breaking up with her without an explanation) and are painting Logan with the huge - Look -look it's the Bad Boy. He's so bad. He burns down pools. He sleeps with trophy wives. Did everyone see the Bad Boy? But I wasn't feeling picked on. I am happy being the lone voice here if that's what I am. I know this opinion is reflected elsewhere so it's okay if I'm the only one supporting Logan here. I was basically just saying I understand both you and Erin's viewpoint. Gladness. But...I totally support Logan. I love the character and think the depths and heights that they show of him are fascinating. I would like to see him with Veronica at some point. I'd like to see them both be a little stronger and independent first, though. I think the PodVeronica was intentional...I think she's way more damaged by the events of the past 2 years than even she knows. So she goes for "safety" and "the known" with Duncan. And Logan has to get to the point where he is held up (morally or sanity-wise) only by the efforts of someone else. He needs a lot, and I don't think Veronica has it to give at this point. As for Kendall...definitely some mommy issues going on there. That would be a good thing NOT to bring in to a future relationship with Veronica. I loved last night's episode...I'm fascinated by the potential directions this can go in. With Rob Thomas, I'm not at the "Trust in Joss" stage yet, but I do think he has a plan and that it will be a hell of a ride. I loved the ep too. It all made perfect sense for our characters, after everything they have been through. Veronica trying to find normalcy - and eschew the high drama of the past. Logan - out of control. Of course he would be - what 17 year old boy with no parents, who has been what he has been through, and who has had the role models he's had, and who has been abused as he has, with the access to money and time that he has - wouldn't be? I loved the Mrs Robinson thing with Charisma. That he would be turning to a "just for sex" thing makes sense, as does the underlying "looking for a mom-figure" thing. I loved KEITH and the way he talked about ALICIA. I love those two together. Overall, I just liked the ep very much. I liked Leo in it as well. |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Sept 29, 2005 17:58:29 GMT -5
I'm with you. Logan and Veronica have a lot of issues, each and together, that they need to work through. So, for that matter, does Duncan. I have to keep reminding myself that they're still children in some ways, which does influence the decisions they make. Logan isn't thinking clearly, or why would he have picked a fight with Weevil and company anyway? Who knows, maybe Logan and Duncan will walk off into the fog together. This could be the start of a beautiful friendship... Anne, Keith Mars hot ;D Anne's cheating on Giles!  I too, love Keith. He's a wonderful dad and sure seems like he is a good boyfriend too. I need to find a Keith. Where are there Keiths? |
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Sept 29, 2005 18:38:02 GMT -5
Anne's cheating on Giles! I too, love Keith. He's a wonderful dad and sure seems like he is a good boyfriend too. I need to find a Keith. Where are there Keiths? Clearly you need to move to small (but rich) town California and date the sherrif. (Just make sure he's a Keith and not a Lamb!) ETA: Not wasting a post for a lame no-review update but: Carolyn's car died and I spent all evening picking her up and getting it jumped. Grrrr arrrgh. At least it wasn't my car for a change, but I'm about ready to move to a big city with mass transit and swear off cars. (Also good that it didn't happen say on the way to the airport tomorrow, or with her stuck at the airport and Jim out of town. So, looking on the bright side. |
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Sept 30, 2005 8:04:24 GMT -5
Wanted to share this about the spy pen in last season. This is from an email from Rob Thomas:
"It was simply going to be an obsessive, stalker-ish letter with some implied threat that would've made Weevil the likely suspect in Lilly's murder. He never actually carried out these threats, but there would've been something in the vein of "bashing your head in," that would've really stood out."
|
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Sept 30, 2005 11:34:50 GMT -5
Wanted to share this about the spy pen in last season. This is from an email from Rob Thomas: "It was simply going to be an obsessive, stalker-ish letter with some implied threat that would've made Weevil the likely suspect in Lilly's murder. He never actually carried out these threats, but there would've been something in the vein of "bashing your head in," that would've really stood out." interesting. why didn't he follow through on this? |
|
|
|
Post by Dev(Rob) on Oct 1, 2005 19:03:30 GMT -5
Good opening to the season! VERNOICA IS BACK BABY. They explained what happened. The dude I like got stabbed!? what!!! Whole new cast in the opening. Two of the guys from a few episodes of last season and a whole new chick. (Ryan Hansen, Kyle Gallner and Tessa Thompson) THIS SEASON WILL ROCK. Oh and I told you it would be Logan at the door! and infact I remember saying the cop would show up as well hehe. Charisma in the 'guest staring' YEAH BABY. Oh my god, Charisma--- SEMI NUDE?! lol Logan did the shocker sign, so rude. What time's this programme on again? NAUGHTY RUDE GESTURES. Veronica is with Duncan? NOOOOOO lol Logan is nailing Charisma!  So are Dick and Beever like brothers then? Because Beev looks younger, and last season in the episode where Veronica was doing the whole flashback of the night she got spiked it looked like they were just friends. CONFUSED. lol 'hello friend' More Lilly? well we all new that storyline had to come back at some point. OH MY GOD MAJOR BUS CRASH. p.s. No spoilers please, Dev |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Oct 2, 2005 9:28:38 GMT -5
Good opening to the season! VERNOICA IS BACK BABY. They explained what happened. The dude I like got stabbed!? what!!! Whole new cast in the opening. Two of the guys from a few episodes of last season and a whole new chick. (Ryan Hansen, Kyle Gallner and Tessa Thompson) THIS SEASON WILL ROCK. Oh and I told you it would be Logan at the door! and infact I remember saying the cop would show up as well hehe. Charisma in the 'guest staring' YEAH BABY. Oh my god, Charisma--- SEMI NUDE?! lol Logan did the shocker sign, so rude. What time's this programme on again? NAUGHTY RUDE GESTURES. Veronica is with Duncan? NOOOOOO lol Logan is nailing Charisma! So are Dick and Beever like brothers then? Because Beev looks younger, and last season in the episode where Veronica was doing the whole flashback of the night she got spiked it looked like they were just friends. CONFUSED. lol 'hello friend' More Lilly? well we all new that storyline had to come back at some point. OH MY GOD MAJOR BUS CRASH. p.s. No spoilers please, DevCharisma did look fantastic. I thought it was interesting that Logan should be involving himself in an "older woman" relationship, after what happened with Aaron & Lilly. Though it makes perfect sense - he's a horny teen who has lost his girlfriend, AND he's a child who has lost his mother. Hello, Kendall Casablancas!! I am guessing that Logan is eventually going to get the snot beat out of him by Mr Casablancas, but it makes sense for him to put himself in that kind of position also . . . I mean, in danger of being beaten by "dad." I don't remember if it was clear or not, in the flashbacks, how Dick and Cassidy were connected. But I don't think there was anything that would have pointed definitively to "just friends." Agree it almost HAD to be Logan at the door. I thought that was well done. I thought the whole ep was well done. I think Veronica is going to stay with Duncan for a while here, but still be carrying something of a torch for Logan. And that won't be good for V/D, for obvious reasons. |
|
|
|
Post by Dev(Rob) on Oct 2, 2005 12:02:46 GMT -5
I think Veronica is going to stay with Duncan for a while here, but still be carrying something of a torch for Logan. And that won't be good for V/D, for obvious reasons. Yeh I can see her going out of her way to save Logan from something and Duncan getting jealous or confused. |
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Oct 3, 2005 11:26:04 GMT -5
I would agree here but I don't think that's the way they are going. I think we notice it because in this episode they are definitely playing DOWN the chemistry being JD and KB. Plus, IMO, KB and TD have very little to no chemistry. Therefore, the chemisty between KB and FC stands out clearly on the screen. When I *listen* to their exchanges, I get no 'shippy vibes from them but, as soon as I see the two actors interact, that's where I get the Veronica/Weevil undertone. <snip> i agree on all counts. besides, if i went by last year's weevil-y eps, i would think they were going to pair weevil with logan. I have decided that that, and Veronica/Mrs. Casablancas are my OTPs for the season. |
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Oct 3, 2005 11:32:18 GMT -5
TD and KB have absolutely no chemistry. I agree that she needs to resolve her long long love feelings and put me in the camp that although Logan loves Veronica, she doesn't love him. She didn't say it back and she never acted like she was in love with him in the very few flashbacks we saw. yeah - what's up with that? agreed. me, too. i mean, what did she really expect from him? yeah, although the show never explicitly stated that's what they did. maybe they were burning some other thing which will come out later this season ;D i honestly hadn't considered this interpretation at all till i read your post. i saw the scene as - first time logan actually talks to veronica since keith's ejection; logan being serious under the snark. indeed. was meg asked, by the way? i don't remember that (doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course!). i got the impression throughout this episode that duncan's dumping ejected her from the 09ers, much like had happened to veronica a couple years before. did anyone else see it this way? are there any on here? kinda like spike at the beginning of angel's s5. where's rae? did matthew stop watching? i missed his play-by-play commentary last night Matthew was furiosly packing for his trip to Chicago! |
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Oct 3, 2005 13:14:41 GMT -5
Honestly I have so many thoughts about this episode but I think I so obsessively post on this so many places that I tend to be diluted by the time I get back to the S'cubie board. I think the whole plan in this episode was to show Veronica as not normal. She wants to be normal but normal = Veronica pre season 1. This is not the Veronica we know and love. She's clingy, she's disinterested in helping others and she's trying to recapture her glory days as Duncan's princess. I don't blame Veronica. (I seriously think there's something wrong with her that she prefers the boring blandness of Duncan to hot - could he be any more cuter than when he did the five minutes more gesture to Keith while necking with Veronica? Oh my God!!!!) But I understand her motivation. To me - it's very clear that while Logan loves Veronica, she does not love him. Or, if she does, she does not know she loves him. She did not say I love you back and she dumped him fairly quickly without a word of defense of him to Keith. I do think Veronica could have been more supportive but maybe it just wasn't there to give. She had gone through so much and she is afraid to make herself vulnerable anymore. With Logan she never thought, just enjoyed the physical and ran anytime things got complicated. She wants to be normal. But Veronica isn't normal anymore. Hopefully she, along with the viewers will discover that. I don't think Season 1 Veronica would have expected Meg to be okay with her relationship with Duncan. I mean Meg didn't start going out with Duncan till Veronica had been broken up with him for almost a year. And even then she asked Veronica if she was okay with this. It looks like Veronica jumped into the Donut relationship without a thought for Meg or whether Meg (supposedly her friend) still had feelings for Duncan. I'm sorry - Veronica I still love you but I'm on Meg's side on this one. S'cubies you may not know this but they cut a scene from the premier. In it Duncan declared his love for Veronica through a singing scene at the bus. Thank you, thank you, thank you Rob for not subjecting us to this. Gah. I think Logan, as he shouted to Veronica, lost the only thing that was keeping him stable and normal and yes, while it's not her fault or her job to help him, he just gave up. He's hurting and he's lost. So of course he has hot, hot sex with the trophy wife. Why shouldn't he? It's not like Veronica cares. I saw only the desire for sex in Logan's relationship with Kendall. I didn't see feelings anywhere. If last year's theme focused on family does this year's theme focus on corruption? |
|
|
|
Post by leftylady on Oct 4, 2005 11:38:47 GMT -5
Back to say I watched the Sunday tape of VM and yes, just as Weevil circles out of the parking lot in his fake abandonment of Veronica the yellow SUV is out of focus parked across the street. When Veronica is walking towards the camera with cell phone you see the SUV back up. Time will tell if it was indeed a clue.
Interesting that we have now had 2 fathers defending their daughters from boyfriends who got out of hand. Keith is just as resolute in his reaction but within the bounds of sanity and reason. Logan got to view both examples (one on the receiving end). Hope Keith can provide the role model that Aaron failed at.
|
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Oct 4, 2005 12:31:34 GMT -5
Back to say I watched the Sunday tape of VM and yes, just as Weevil circles out of the parking lot in his fake abandonment of Veronica the yellow SUV is out of focus parked across the street. When Veronica is walking towards the camera with cell phone you see the SUV back up. Time will tell if it was indeed a clue. Interesting that we have now had 2 fathers defending their daughters from boyfriends who got out of hand. Keith is just as resolute in his reaction but within the bounds of sanity and reason. Logan got to view both examples (one on the receiving end). Hope Keith can provide the role model that Aaron failed at. Lefty: Is the SUV you're talking about the one in this screen cap? Because that looks silver to me (or, at least, certainly not the bright yellow of Logan's XTerra - compare to the circle I drew around it) and I'm just not having any luck seeing a yellow SUV anywhere in those shots when I rewatch. I don't know if I'm just missing it or what. I have to admit I have a hard time believing Logan was done with Kendall in enough time to have driven out to the field trip location to be at the gas station at the same time as the bus. |
|
|
|
Post by leftylady on Oct 4, 2005 17:08:36 GMT -5
Back to say I watched the Sunday tape of VM and yes, just as Weevil circles out of the parking lot in his fake abandonment of Veronica the yellow SUV is out of focus parked across the street. When Veronica is walking towards the camera with cell phone you see the SUV back up. Time will tell if it was indeed a clue. Interesting that we have now had 2 fathers defending their daughters from boyfriends who got out of hand. Keith is just as resolute in his reaction but within the bounds of sanity and reason. Logan got to view both examples (one on the receiving end). Hope Keith can provide the role model that Aaron failed at. Lefty: Is the SUV you're talking about the one in this screen cap? Because that looks silver to me (or, at least, certainly not the bright yellow of Logan's XTerra - compare to the circle I drew around it) and I'm just not having any luck seeing a yellow SUV anywhere in those shots when I rewatch. I don't know if I'm just missing it or what. I have to admit I have a hard time believing Logan was done with Kendall in enough time to have driven out to the field trip location to be at the gas station at the same time as the bus. Yes, that would be the one. Looked more yellow on my screen so maybe it isn't (isn't supposed to be) Logan's SUV. But the placment and movement (it backs up from behind V as she is walking) caught my eye. If it isn't a clue, then it proves V wrong: some things ARE accidental in Neptune. Thanks for checking the screencaps. |
|
) she seems like she's either feeling insecure about her relationship or like she's trying so hard to prove it to everybody else. either way i'd say "normal is the watchword" is a very appropriate summary for this episode - normal is definitely what she's attempting to achieve here, though it's not surprisingly already falling apart on her. i can't begin to imagine what it's like to know you *didn't* die because someone else had a vendetta against you (and be left wondering if the other people *did* die for the same reason? or because someone had one against your ex?).
