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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2005 18:20:24 GMT -5
i agree on all counts. besides, if i went by last year's weevil-y eps, i would think they were going to pair weevil with logan. I have decided that that, and Veronica/Mrs. Casablancas are my OTPs for the season. #rofl1#
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2005 18:27:44 GMT -5
Honestly I have so many thoughts about this episode but I think I so obsessively post on this so many places that I tend to be diluted by the time I get back to the S'cubie board. I think the whole plan in this episode was to show Veronica as not normal. She wants to be normal but normal = Veronica pre season 1. This is not the Veronica we know and love. She's clingy, she's disinterested in helping others and she's trying to recapture her glory days as Duncan's princess. She's definitely decided there is a "normal" Veronica she could be if she just tries hard enough. It has such a feel of . . . papering over the issues and feelings she still has underneath. Not just unresolved Logan issues, but the whole aftermath of Aaron's attempt on her life, the things she learned about Lily and her own past - the night of the party and her mother and so on. She's not really dealing with those, I think. Scared and unsure of herself in a way that she has never been before, I would say. I'm not really on Meg's side in this case. I mean, Veronica's description of the events are really not that much different than what happened when Meg first started going out with Duncan. And Meg expected Veronica to, well, not to necessarily feel great about it - she was hurt - but to deal with it. And V did. Gah indeed. Corruption . . . taking sides . . . reacting violently to a different viewpoint or type of person rather than seeking to understand . . .
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2005 18:28:45 GMT -5
Back to say I watched the Sunday tape of VM and yes, just as Weevil circles out of the parking lot in his fake abandonment of Veronica the yellow SUV is out of focus parked across the street. When Veronica is walking towards the camera with cell phone you see the SUV back up. Time will tell if it was indeed a clue. Interesting that we have now had 2 fathers defending their daughters from boyfriends who got out of hand. Keith is just as resolute in his reaction but within the bounds of sanity and reason. Logan got to view both examples (one on the receiving end). Hope Keith can provide the role model that Aaron failed at. What an excellent thought . . . Keith as a model of what a father really should be . . . Very true.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Oct 6, 2005 3:15:33 GMT -5
Mmmmmm. Keith Mars very hot. haha no way! He's in some really really crappy sitcom I see now and again on UK television. Not sure what it's called but it's awful.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Oct 6, 2005 3:16:14 GMT -5
Good opening to the season! VERNOICA IS BACK BABY. They explained what happened. The dude I like got stabbed!? what!!! Whole new cast in the opening. Two of the guys from a few episodes of last season and a whole new chick. (Ryan Hansen, Kyle Gallner and Tessa Thompson) THIS SEASON WILL ROCK. Oh and I told you it would be Logan at the door! and infact I remember saying the cop would show up as well hehe. You had confidence, eh? Yup! I wasn't spoiled either.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 7, 2005 8:49:38 GMT -5
Sue - fabulous job on the review. I think you hit everything right on the head. RT failed to employ any subtley while hammering us over the head with this year's themes but after this week's episode I don't mind one bit.
I loved your analysis of the very non-normal boyfriends and the oepidpal issues. Logan is so completely acting out but I find it hard to blame him when he has lost every anchor he ever had in his young life.
Duncan is either overly medicated, seriously messed up or with some kind of hidden agenda as I find him back in his standing idly by or should I say stalking idly by mode.
Anyway - thanks for the terrific review.
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 7, 2005 8:58:07 GMT -5
Great review, Sue! I like how you point out that RT keeps repeating things over and over in the episode. Also, you make a good point about Clemmons actually respecting Veronica's word enough that he would go to the coffeeshop and eavesdrop in on that conversation. Last season, he wouldn't have been so quick. However, is that truly a sign that he trusts Veronica or is it a sign that Veronica is really back in with the 09ers and we know Clemmons has always cowtowed to the 09er rule in the school. (His inclination to side with Madison over Wanda last year for example.) I have to disagree about the ballpark scene. It was weird and awkward but I don't think it was necessarily false. The clingy Veronica seems to be what she thinks she has to be to be normal so I felt that fit nicely with the idea that she's trying to go back to being that girl she once was. Which, legitimately, should feel uncomfortable for us, the viewers, but I think it rang very true in the overall theme of the episode. Of course, I didn't like the door scenes and felt much of the flashbacks with Logan during the summer rang false so what do I know? Ok, I should probably get back to work, just wanted to come leave some feedback first. Great job! I love having the reviews back and can't wait for Spring's review this week.
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 7, 2005 12:21:03 GMT -5
Passing along some nice comments from LJ folks about Sue's review. ladydisdain225 said: and chrisjournal said: I think Chris read our Angel reviews and probably Spring's Spikecentricity analyses so I'm glad I could let her know about the VM reviews too.
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Post by Sue on Oct 7, 2005 12:34:21 GMT -5
Sue - fabulous job on the review. I think you hit everything right on the head. RT failed to employ any subtley while hammering us over the head with this year's themes but after this week's episode I don't mind one bit. I loved your analysis of the very non-normal boyfriends and the oepidpal issues. Logan is so completely acting out but I find it hard to blame him when he has lost every anchor he ever had in his young life. Duncan is either overly medicated, seriously messed up or with some kind of hidden agenda as I find him back in his standing idly by or should I say stalking idly by mode. Anyway - thanks for the terrific review. Pixi, Thanks for the nice words. I try not to be falsely modest, but I really don't feel this was one of my best efforts. My personal favorite part (from my own review) was the part about "what did normal get them? Dead at the bottom of a cliff. Normal is overrated." But yeah, RT really caught my attention with the repeated......repeatedness of themes. Interesting. I'm wondering what subltly I missed while I was distracted by the obvious stuff. (Like a majician waves one hand around to distract from what his other hand is doing.)
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Post by Sue on Oct 7, 2005 12:39:20 GMT -5
Great review, Sue! I like how you point out that RT keeps repeating things over and over in the episode. Also, you make a good point about Clemmons actually respecting Veronica's word enough that he would go to the coffeeshop and eavesdrop in on that conversation. Last season, he wouldn't have been so quick. However, is that truly a sign that he trusts Veronica or is it a sign that Veronica is really back in with the 09ers and we know Clemmons has always cowtowed to the 09er rule in the school. (His inclination to side with Madison over Wanda last year for example.) Well, even from the progression of their interactions from last year I feel like Clemmons respects her detecting talent even when he has to enforce school policies on her. Did I say false? If so that was a bad choice of words. Yeah, weird and awkward was more what I meant, but I meant it from outside the story: the introduction of Gia and Woody seemed forced----it didn't flow naturally and Woody seemed false--as a person. So when he decides to run for mayor he decides it's politically expedient to put his kid in public school. But then he actually verbalizes that as his motive? And sort of attempting to buy his daughter into a social group? The scenes just didn't seem to flow with the story.
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Post by Sue on Oct 7, 2005 12:41:44 GMT -5
Passing along some nice comments from LJ folks about Sue's review. ladydisdain225 said: and chrisjournal said: I think Chris read our Angel reviews and probably Spring's Spikecentricity analyses so I'm glad I could let her know about the VM reviews too. Rae, This is just so ... neat. Well, it's always nice to get positive feedback, but I love that you are pimping the reviews on LJ and getting responses. Of course, they are welcome to come post comments on the thread, if they like. Thanks for doing the pimping and for directing the feedback back at me!
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 7, 2005 14:23:39 GMT -5
Passing along some nice comments from LJ folks about Sue's review. ladydisdain225 said: and chrisjournal said: I think Chris read our Angel reviews and probably Spring's Spikecentricity analyses so I'm glad I could let her know about the VM reviews too. Rae, This is just so ... neat. Well, it's always nice to get positive feedback, but I love that you are pimping the reviews on LJ and getting responses. Of course, they are welcome to come post comments on the thread, if they like. Thanks for doing the pimping and for directing the feedback back at me! - I'm happy to pimp out the reviews. I wasn't posting on LJ much last year or I would have done it then too. Now I have a lot more VM people on my friend list over there so it'll reach more folks. And how can I not point them towards your and Spring's reviews? I did give them a link for posting here too so you may get a few replies here too. And, if I get any more praise that is just posted there, I'll pass it along.
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Post by Karen on Oct 7, 2005 16:04:40 GMT -5
Sue's review:
EETAH that! And also with your observation that nothing is normal about Veronica's life.
Nice review, Sue!
That would be 'normal' for my kids. For the rich, normal would be to be picked up by a limo. And what's normal for one group, is abnormal for another. In the town of Neptune, nothing ever stays 'normal'.
I think most people want to be normal, in the sense that they don't want to be "different" from the norm around them. Normal: Functioning or occurring in a natural way; lacking observable abnormalities or deficiencies.
Most people want to be noticed and accepted, so they choose a group where they can feel like they belong and are wanted. Fitting in with the 'popular' group takes confidence. Veronica seems to be using Duncan to 'fit in' with the 09ers. Why should she care?
" I think the hardest thing for a kid to do is to NOT choose a side. Being with Logan pulled Veronica back into the the 09er 'fold', but she doesn't really belong there. And she doesn't really belong with the "have nots" - not as long as she has her dad. They may not have a lot of money, but they have the important thing - love. I wonder what, if anything, will change if Keith's book is a best seller and brings in a lot of money. I bet Lianne will come crawling back.
Seems to me that money is not the most important thing a kid needs to grow up right in Neptune. A stable adult influence is what is lacking for a lot of the kids - be they rich or poor.
I don't know what to make of Logan. I understand how messed up he is because his mother was murdered (missing), his dad murdered his girlfriend and he himself was accused of murder. All very awful things.
But he had Veronica's love - and he destroyed their relationship by acting out. Why wasn't she enough for him? Will he ever really be able to be that 'normal' boyfriend that Veronica craves? Is that why she is attracted to Duncan - because he is 'safe'?
Still think she should go for Weevil or Wallace. ;D
Thank you for a fine review!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 7, 2005 19:21:21 GMT -5
Well, another season begins and once again we get to read your excellent analysis, Sue. Fab job!
Loved your deconstruction of Veronica's oh-so-not-normal life. Your description of Keith is wonderful.
Completely on board with the Keith love here. ;D
But I particularly loved how you point out that being "normal" is really not the goal of most teenagers - it is not the image they are aiming for. Veronica yearns for an idea, an image of normalcy, because of the events of the past year. Being "normal", once you figure out what that is supposed to be, seems safe to her. As you point out, however, normal doesn't really exist for Veronica and her gang. Certainly not the fairy tale normal that Veronica seems to be aiming for.
I also quite simply loved:
Big eetah that class warfare and taking sides are going to be the true "watchwords" for this season. Veronica's quest for normalcy may still be a factor in her personal journey this year, but the large story of this season is certainly going to focus on the haves and the have-nots.
Oooooh, you have me intrigued by the idea of conspiracy. Of group liability or guilt. I hadn't thought about that. But of course every single MOTW last season had a secondary meaning to the mystery of Lily's murder and therefore it is likely that each weekly mystery this year will also contain some type of commentary or clue to the larger mystery. However, I had simply thought in terms of how it reflected on the class tensions and (in a repeat from last year) how adults interfere and control their children's lives. I hadn't thought about the possible importance of a group of guilty parties. And, of course, I am now thinking about the fact that we also have multiple victims this year . . . . You have me very very intrigued now, Sue!!
Oh, and - Logan is the new Veronica? Too clever by half, missy. #claps#
Awesome job, Sue! Many kudos to you!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 7, 2005 22:38:12 GMT -5
Great review, Sue. Loved the observation about what “normal” likely means to a teenager – i.e., not so much “average” as “having a perfect life.” On this: I am a bit intrigued by Veronica's voiceover comment: "another rich kid getting off scot-free." Is there a piece of missing backstory, which will eventually be filled in, or was this just an off-the-cuff comment? I would guess the latter. And I couldn’t agree more about this: And it is no accident that Veronica has been yanked out of her so-called normal life smack back into the middle of simmering jealousies, racial unrest, unknown murderers and mayhem. Getting into college will be a breeze compared to surviving senior year. Well put – Veronica is in for it this year! I absolutely and totally agree on the Keith-love, and I really like the observation that Logan “is the new Veronica” for the season. Those two are very much alike and on deliberately parallel courses, I think.
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