|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:47:15 GMT -5
Rae, I just noticed your change of status while playing with fontware on Newboard. Congratulations! You got the stakes and holy water all ready for when the party starts getting rowdy? Nan
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:47:41 GMT -5
Re the "I love you" "No you don't but thanks for saying it" exchange in the finale, it occurs to me that Spike hasn't, that I recall, ever told Buffy anything less than complete emotional truth, whether she wanted to hear it or not, through the whole of the series. If that be true, then I find myself having to side with the faction that holds that Buffy REALLY doesn't love him, per Spike's notion of loving anyway. He wouldn't have said it just to get her safely out. That this faction includes Sarah Michelle Gellar is just my cross to bear. When they're right, they're right. Nan
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:48:08 GMT -5
Very cool guys! I'm going to go make my big list of 'can we do it this way's now... Just kidding. I LOVE the way the new board looks and functions (THANKS VLAD!) now that my picture shows up (THANKS RAE) and it's great to have some more techno-talent available when Vlad is out...replenishing his o-neg...or asleep in his crypt...or turning people with those long slow bites that last for days.............. Sorry, I was in the moment.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:48:33 GMT -5
What WAS Buffy's comment to the first Slayer? Gosh, I never knew you were angry. But I guess a chip on one's shoulder beats a chip in one's head....(sorry, couldn't resist) Gail
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:49:03 GMT -5
Nan said: Re the "I love you" "No you don't but thanks for saying it" exchange in the finale, it occurs to me that Spike hasn't, that I recall, ever told Buffy anything less than complete emotional truth, whether she wanted to hear it or not, through the whole of the series. I've thought about this so much (surprise, surprise) and what the heck that image of the two hands burning meant, and the changing looks on Buffy's face...and the look on Spike's face...and my present interpretation (not original) is that somehow when Buffy took his hand, their hearts and minds were opened to each other - she looked startled and pained at first, and then there was wonder, and love - I think she was finally seeing into Spike's heart, sharing that closeness he had talked about - completely for that moment, and she loved him for what she saw, and told him what he wanted to hear, but at the same moment, he was seeing into her soul and her mind and heart, and knowing that what she wanted most was freedom, she wanted to be normal, and he gave her that. So...I too think that SMG was right...(gritted teeth)...in that Buffy loves Spike, she loves him as much as she presently could love anyone, but she wasn't in love with him, in the way he loved her. Buffy is stupid.
Patti T.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:49:33 GMT -5
Twenty bucks if someone can tell me the name of the movie the above came from. (Alright, not twenty bucks but how about a big cyber hug and kiss?) Anyway, I'm outta here!! Don't go post-crazy tonight! See y'all tomorrow morning! -Lee Hollins
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:50:19 GMT -5
That's why (his insightfulness and emotional honesty) as soon as I heard Spike's denial of Buffy's declaration of love I despaired. While everything that came before left room for interpretation, Spike's pronouncement settled, in my mind anyway, the answer to that long smoldering question of Buffy's true feelings for him. And I felt and feel so very betrayed by that answer. It's ironic. For years it's been Spike's unwavering conviction that Buffy really loved him but refused to admit it to herself or to him that sustained him in his efforts to change for her, to be the kind of man that she could allow herself to love. And it was his conviction and the undeniable chemistry between them that convinced us of the truth of it as well. So I call it ironic when at last, Buffy admits to loving him, he recognizes that she wasn't in love with him after all. I know that at that moment, he was being consumed by the light of his soul and he was experiencing the joy of having been found a worthy Champion and sacrifice that he was beyond caring. But I still care plenty. This ultimate resolution of the Buffy and Spike relationship arc, the fact that we saw Buffy shed not a single tear for Spike when he'd cried buckets at her death, followed by the absence of a single word of appreciation or recognition of Spike's sacrifice and worth by any of the Scoobies, left me with the bitterness and disappointment that overwhelmed my response to the finale, despite all the many wonderful scenes and dialogue it had to offer. I feel as if Joss has pulled the rug out from under me and I landed hard on my bum and I'm still reeling from the shock of the fall. Maybe that's why I haven't been able to write a tribute to Joss and the show under the Nerd Alert thread. I'm just two upset to find the words. deborah
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:50:50 GMT -5
I just finished Chapter 8. YES, I am so behind, but I am still loving it, Rob. That was a WONDERFUL chapter! Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:51:24 GMT -5
It was a fascinating analysis. I was particularly intrigued by the notion of Angel as a construct personality; which can explain why he turns back into Angelus so easily. Spike obviously retained far more of his original William personality than did Angelus, or even Spike's own mother. I don't necessarily share the article's view that Spike is a better candidate for Shanshu than Angel, I think the jury is still out. I don't think Spike would WANT to be human again unless he could be the world's first male Slayer; he wouldn't want to lose his strength... Gail Freeman
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:52:05 GMT -5
Deborah, you have some valid points about the frustration of seeing Buffy not crying for Spike's death and none of the Scoobies commenting on his sacrifice...But I would chalk that up to the fact that they have all just survived an incredible ordeal and might be emotionally numb at the moment. I lost my best friend a couple of years ago. I didn't cry for three weeks after he died (at the memorial service I started crying and couldn't stop), and then it was like, every day a few minutes at a time. Buffy and Dawn will probably weep later. Dawn is probably more than a little sad that Amanda is dead. Xander's probably too sad for Anya to spare sorrow for Spike. It WOULD have been nice to hear Giles say something in appreciation! Also, I doubt that Mr. Whedon wanted to end seven years of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER with the sight of the Slayer weeping; he wanted her to go out smiling in bittersweet triumph. Gail I personally think that Buffy DOES love Spike. I never saw her look at any of her friends the way she looked at Spike when she freed him from the First, all soft-eyed and heart-in-her-eyes; the last time I remember seeing her like that was when she was about to kill Angel to save the world back in Season 2. I don't know why Spike said that Buffy didn't love him; it's the one false note in the finale for me...
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:52:50 GMT -5
// Rae, I just noticed your change of status while playing with fontware on Newboard. Congratulations! You got the stakes and holy water all ready for when the party starts getting rowdy? Nan // Thanks, Nan --- Actually, no to the stakes and holy water but I do have a nice purty knife with carvings all over it. It's not quite as nice as Vlad's scythe or as fancy as Wesle..err Dave's retracting arm stakes/weapons but it works. Though, now that you mention the holy water, I might start wearing overalls so I can carry it some bottles of it around with me. Rae Hanson
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:53:12 GMT -5
Thanks, Patti! (Oh, my pleasure on the picture thing.)
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:53:38 GMT -5
Hey James- what a beautiful name you have chosen for your little one! Much joy to you and your wife and boys- You are all in my thoughts... my e mail address is on the s'cubie site- I'd love to hear from you about Buffy- the topic you have chosen sounds particularly fruitful. I still miss Mr. Trick- he and Sweet are among my favorite villains. If you have any trouble accessing the site- get Spring to give my e mail address to you (if that is ok, Spring?) ellie
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:54:14 GMT -5
I do believe Buffy came to love, respect and admire Spike. I believe she will always honor his memory. But I just can't believe that she was in in love with him, and that's what hurts. As for the lack of tears, hell, I know the girl can cry. I've seen her crying her heart out time and again. Just not for Spike. And as for the lack of response to Spike's sacrifice on the part of the Scooby's well, I know time was limited but surely time could have been spared for a word or two of acknowledgement and appreciation. Just enough dialogue to convey that they gave a flying you know what. Barring actual dialogue I would have been satisfied with just a look of shock and realization from Giles, that had he had his way the one responsible for their final victory would have not been there to play his crucial role. There were a lot of things I loved in the finale. But these disappointments just cut too deeply to allow me to be happy with it. deorah
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on May 7, 2004 16:54:43 GMT -5
Joshua, welcome back. We wondered where you'd got to and now we know. A hell dimension huh? Have you comeback wrong?
Rusty Goode
|
|