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Post by Onjel on May 14, 2005 11:04:32 GMT -5
I agree. That everywoman thing could never play out. Buffy wanted that with the fervor of a teenager who is embarrassed by her parents' mode of dress and wants to change them. Bad sentence structure, but you get my drift, right? No normal, human guy was ever going to get it done for her. Stamina notwithstanding, at least someone in the biz, or familiar with the biz was necessary. The stamina, and boatloads of experience were just a Buffy Summers bonus. And Angel, I really did not get the impression that he was all that great a first, if you know what I mean. Not nearly as talented or interesting as Spike. Well, firsts are often a bit . . . rocky, as it were. And they never got time to practice, did they? But yes, I've always been of the opinion that Buffy needed to stop trying to find that "normal' guy that would fit into her world and be the perfect match for her. Probably not gonna work. She needs a true match, and that requires an element of the supernatural. Eetah, to all of the above! Truer words were never spoken!
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Post by Lynn on May 16, 2005 14:50:31 GMT -5
It just seems to me that ME in a way didn't know what they had in the sense that fans have been rewriting Buffy/Spike to make it come out right. I am OK with the Cyrano/Roxane or other great love stories that end sadly, but somehow Buffy/Spike got trivialized or something. To me they are completely right for each other. Phooey to cookie dough. She could NEVER find anyone good enough after him.
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Post by Onjel Lurking on May 16, 2005 21:30:20 GMT -5
It just seems to me that ME in a way didn't know what they had in the sense that fans have been rewriting Buffy/Spike to make it come out right. I am OK with the Cyrano/Roxane or other great love stories that end sadly, but somehow Buffy/Spike got trivialized or something. To me they are completely right for each other. Phooey to cookie dough. She could NEVER find anyone good enough after him. Oh yeah! You sing it, sister!!! ;D
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Post by Lynn on May 17, 2005 7:48:40 GMT -5
Of course Spike is very amusing when he manages to say all the wrong things. He is so modest when he says "I'm just sayin' - vampires get you hot." So she's just a groupie! Nothing to do with his skills and great body. If he hadn't said that she probably would have stayed awhile.
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Onjel just logged out
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Post by Onjel just logged out on May 17, 2005 8:38:01 GMT -5
Of course Spike is very amusing when he manages to say all the wrong things. He is so modest when he says "I'm just sayin' - vampires get you hot." So she's just a groupie! Nothing to do with his skills and great body. If he hadn't said that she probably would have stayed awhile. Yeah, he really needed to practice being quiet sometimes. Cutie though, nonetheless.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 17, 2005 18:20:53 GMT -5
Of course Spike is very amusing when he manages to say all the wrong things. He is so modest when he says "I'm just sayin' - vampires get you hot." So she's just a groupie! Nothing to do with his skills and great body. If he hadn't said that she probably would have stayed awhile. Yeah, he really needed to practice being quiet sometimes. Cutie though, nonetheless. I have only one thing to say: Spike pretty.Spike very, very, pretty. OK - well, I have another thing to say: I loved Buffy & Spike together. It was such a great story line, they were soooo hot together and there was such non-stop passion, etc. But the reason I'm not 100% gung-ho on board with the idea of Spike & Buffy getting back together, 4eva, is not because of the cookie dough thing. It's more for Spike's sake. I think that he really, really, really, needs to grow past that relationship. And I think given time, the Spike I was seeing by the end of AtS Season 5 would be doing just that - moving on to bigger and better things, in all aspects of his unlife, including romantic relationships.
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Post by Onjel not logged in yet on May 18, 2005 9:12:27 GMT -5
Yeah, he really needed to practice being quiet sometimes. Cutie though, nonetheless. I have only one thing to say: Spike pretty.Spike very, very, pretty. OK - well, I have another thing to say: I loved Buffy & Spike together. It was such a great story line, they were soooo hot together and there was such non-stop passion, etc. But the reason I'm not 100% gung-ho on board with the idea of Spike & Buffy getting back together, 4eva, is not because of the cookie dough thing. It's more for Spike's sake. I think that he really, really, really, needs to grow past that relationship. And I think given time, the Spike I was seeing by the end of AtS Season 5 would be doing just that - moving on to bigger and better things, in all aspects of his unlife, including romantic relationships. Intellectually, I agree, completely. But, the romantic in me would love to see them as complete adults, each in their own right, together at last. You are right, Spike needed to grow past his need for Buffy and I think Buffy needed to just plain grow up. I am stubborn, though; I like to think that once they spent time apart and became complete on their own, that they would get back together. I just can't see anyone working for either but the other of them.
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Post by Lynn on May 18, 2005 15:14:02 GMT -5
Just for me at least, part of the appeal is that he so singleminded loves Buffy - that never falters, no matter what. Through the power struggles they have on many levels, through all the suffering, it never stops, its just through and through, and IMO what makes him so remarkable, and the story. so unforgettable. And as for her, as she says in the last season "What! You think I still love Spike?" (oh yeah.) And for me, Spike just took over the show, even when it may have been unintended by its creators. In the summer there will be a new article"The Vampire Spike in Text and Fandom" that will explore what JM did to the role. So pretty!
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Onjel running out the door
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Post by Onjel running out the door on May 19, 2005 8:26:07 GMT -5
Just for me at least, part of the appeal is that he so singleminded loves Buffy - that never falters, no matter what. Through the power struggles they have on many levels, through all the suffering, it never stops, its just through and through, and IMO what makes him so remarkable, and the story. so unforgettable. And as for her, as she says in the last season "What! You think I still love Spike?" (oh yeah.) And for me, Spike just took over the show, even when it may have been unintended by its creators. In the summer there will be a new article"The Vampire Spike in Text and Fandom" that will explore what JM did to the role. So pretty! I think he owned the role and Spike took over the show in some respects. Certainly in the minds and hearts of the fans, who wanted more of him and the Spuffy interaction. Clearly ME twigged to it since they resurrected him for Angel, placating all of us who were so despondent when he dusted saving the world in BTVS. That's all I have time for now, but I will be thinking about this some more and will post when able.
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Post by LadyDi on May 30, 2005 23:29:22 GMT -5
We had a discussion on the main board once about whether or not a regular guy could "get the job done" for Buffy. Personally, I have my doubts. With Parker, she was young and inexperienced. Riley was a dope...er, being doped by Walsh. But Joss seems to have this crazy idea that Buffy's some kind of Everywoman (hence the whole 'normal life' thing) and will settle for find someone else. As if men like Spike grew on trees! I agree. That everywoman thing could never play out. Buffy wanted that with the fervor of a teenager who is embarrassed by her parents' mode of dress and wants to change them. Bad sentence structure, but you get my drift, right? No normal, human guy was ever going to get it done for her. Stamina notwithstanding, at least someone in the biz, or familiar with the biz was necessary. The stamina, and boatloads of experience were just a Buffy Summers bonus. And Angel, I really did not get the impression that he was all that great a first, if you know what I mean. Not nearly as talented or interesting as Spike. I've come to the conclusion that Angel really wasn't that great a lover myself; mostly because he seems to be more about his own satisfaction than his partner's.
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Post by LadyDi on May 30, 2005 23:39:42 GMT -5
Yeah, he really needed to practice being quiet sometimes. Cutie though, nonetheless. I have only one thing to say: Spike pretty.Spike very, very, pretty. OK - well, I have another thing to say: I loved Buffy & Spike together. It was such a great story line, they were soooo hot together and there was such non-stop passion, etc. But the reason I'm not 100% gung-ho on board with the idea of Spike & Buffy getting back together, 4eva, is not because of the cookie dough thing. It's more for Spike's sake. I think that he really, really, really, needs to grow past that relationship. And I think given time, the Spike I was seeing by the end of AtS Season 5 would be doing just that - moving on to bigger and better things, in all aspects of his unlife, including romantic relationships. While I can certainly understand where you're coming from with this, I think Buffy and Spike not getting back together had more to do with Joss hitting us over the head with the irony stick (what does he do for fun nowadays?). Buffy was meant to find out Spike had returned. She'd had the [glow=yellow,2,300] Big Yellow Taxi[/glow] moment most of us were waiting praying for, but finds out Spike's the one with the mission. BTW, I feel this is very much a guy thing. Joss said it was important for Spike to keep fighting to prove himself a good man. Everything else takes a back seat to the Cause. Also, considering the tone of their relationship toward the end, I don't see it as trivial or unimportant.
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Post by Lynn on May 31, 2005 19:49:41 GMT -5
Well maybe trivial was too strong a word, considering the fiery handshake near the end.
I have to confess! I don't want Spike to mature and grow up. In my fantasy he is forever just exactly like he is and he never puts on a suit and goes to law school. (In my conscious life I already know so many brilliant and mature men. ) I like to think of Spike as forever just: Spike.
By the way Spring, I can never open the "books" on your bookshelf. It just pings at me and sits there. Help!
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Post by SpringSummers on May 31, 2005 20:52:41 GMT -5
Well maybe trivial was too strong a word, considering the fiery handshake near the end. I have to confess! I don't want Spike to mature and grow up. In my fantasy he is forever just exactly like he is and he never puts on a suit and goes to law school. (In my conscious life I already know so many brilliant and mature men. ) I like to think of Spike as forever just: Spike. By the way Spring, I can never open the "books" on your bookshelf. It just pings at me and sits there. Help! Here are direct links to all my stories: Home In the Night - how the OMWF kiss ends up: www.soulfulspike.com/Home.htmIn Perfect Harmony - how Spike & Harmony meet!: www.soulfulspike.com/InPerfectHarmony.htmEvery Last Trace - the immediate aftermath of Something Blue: www.soulfulspike.com/EveryLastTrace.htm (Make sure you scroll all the way to the end of this story.) The Naked Truth - Buffy has an interesting conversation with the Buffybot, shortly after Intervention: www.soulfulspike.com/TheNakedTruth.htmPants on Fire - A Season 6 adventure for Buffy & Spike and the Scoobies - some Spuffiness involved: www.soulfulspike.com/PantsOnFire-1.htmThe Other Half Lives - a 12 chapter fic I did with Patti, Rae and Rob - Buffy has an amazing and amusing life-changing experience in Season 6. www.soulfulspike.com/roundrobin.htmHope you enjoy! If you get a chance, lemme know what you think.
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Post by Lynn on Jun 2, 2005 16:40:30 GMT -5
Oh thank you! What a treat in store.
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Post by LadyDi on Jun 3, 2005 21:28:39 GMT -5
Well maybe trivial was too strong a word, considering the fiery handshake near the end.
This is what really gets to me. The fire that burns but does not consume is sacred (like the burning bush). I know Joss isn't religious, but he has to be aware of the meaning.
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